Christian Salvation?

[POI]

According to the Bible, what minimum qualifications are required for Christian Heavenly salvation?

- Does a stillborn baby receive a free pass?
- Do all deceased children receive a free pass, prior to the age of enlightenment?
- Is it mandatory to believe, worship, and also attempt to follow Hm; while still knowing you will fall short of perfection in your attempts?
- Is some sort of baptism a requirement for salvation?
- Can you lack conviction that God even exists, but still be selected by your judged upon works?
- Must you keep specific Commandments all the time?
- Does blasphemy of the Holy Spirit guarantee damnation, regardless of later repentance of this prior deemed offense (i.e.) the born again Christians might be screwed?
- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?
- Must you love God more than you love anyone on earth?
- Can you be a devout believer/follower, but choose not to give away the majority of your wealth to ones more in need than you?
- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?

[myth-one.com]

Hearing is not absolutely necessary.

But in the scriptures, it is written:

For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:13-14)

Am I taking that out of context?
Or am I taking it too literally?
Or do some of the words have other meanings?

Help us Lord!

[Jemima]

What is the big picture from your perspective?

There are two type of living bodies, physical and spiritual. All physical bodies will die. Thus to gain everlasting life, one must become a spiritual bodied being.

Good start....
I would like to address all the posters who responded to my previous reply.....(POI PinSeeker and myth-one.com)
This is the way I see it.....big picture....

First of all I think we need to make a very important distinction between "everlasting life" and "immortality". Both are mentioned in the scriptures and these terms are not interchangeable. They each mean completely different things.

Immortality literally means "deathless".....or the "power of an indestructible life". Humans can never be immortal in their flesh, so those taken to heaven are given spirit bodies in order to be able to exist there in the presence of God forever immortal. But even the angels are not immortal because God can destroy them. Jesus could not have been immortal either because he had to die. Immortals cannot die.


What God promised humans in the beginning was "everlasting life" in their mortal flesh. This didn't mean that they HAD to die...only that they COULD if they disobeyed God. He accomplished this by making the humans "in his image", physically perfect and reflecting God's superlative moral qualities....and also by providing a means to keep them alive forever. It was called "the tree of life". It was there in the garden and freely accessible, but only as long as they obeyed God's command NOT to eat from the "tree of the knowledge of good and evil" only then would death overtake them as they were evicted and unable to access the tree of life again......so "everlasting life" on earth was the original plan, and God made provision for it. There was no mention of immortality or heaven and hell because everlasting life on earth for humankind in paradise conditions was the optimum. They wanted for nothing...everything they needed to make life enjoyable and productive was freely and lovingly provided.

So what went wrong? How did they lose all that, and how did we end up here in this world, which is the total opposite of what we started with?

In a word..."disobedience" and its consequence..."death". God was faced with what he knew was a risk in giving his human creation, something he did not give to any other creature on earth...free will. He knew that free will could lead to disobedience but unless it was a choice to obey him, all he would have was robots. He did not create us to be robots, but our assignment here on earth depended on our obedience to our Creator, knowing that he was wiser than his creation and in full knowledge of what death meant. He could not withhold knowledge from his human children unless they willingly left that knowledge in his hands out of respect for the one thing that their Creator claimed as his own property. Had they simply respected that and complied with his command, none of what followed would have happened. There would have been no need for a Savior, (nothing to save us from) no need for a kingdom (God was already their King) and no need to ever worry about old age, sickness or death. None of those things was in God's original purpose.

So if we have in mind what God originally intended for us here on this earth, we can then begin to understand what he did when a spirit creature rebelled, having grand ideas about becoming a god himself, and seeing the human race as his potential worshippers....all he had to do was separate them from him by getting them to disobey him. How and why did God allow this?

As it turns out, we learn from the book of Ezekiel 28:13-17...that the devil was on assignment in the garden of Eden as a covering Cherub. (an guardian angel of high rank)....this is interesting because it gives us some insight as to why he was there and how his observations of the first humans led him to rebel.

These words are addressed to the King of Tyre, but are clearly about satan the devil.....

"You were the model of perfection,
Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.
13 You were in Eʹden, the garden of God.
You were adorned with every precious stone...
And their settings and mountings were made of gold.
They were prepared on the day you were created.
14 I assigned you as the anointed covering cherub.
You were on the holy mountain of God, and you walked about among fiery stones.
15 You were faultless in your ways from the day you were created
Until unrighteousness was found in you.
16 Because of your abundant trade,
You became filled with violence, and you began to sin.
So I will cast you out as profane from the mountain of God and destroy you,
O covering cherub, away from the stones of fire.
17 Your heart became haughty because of your beauty.
You corrupted your wisdom because of your own glorious splendor.
I will throw you down to the earth.
I will make you a spectacle before kings."


So now we have the reasons why humans were tempted away from God in the first place, and why God had to allow the devil to finish what he started. This whole scenario is not really just about us, but about all of God's intelligent creatures in heaven and on earth. By allowing the devil to prove his claim to be the better god and ruler of mankind, God would allow both humans and angels to experience first hand the consequences of their own choices. He would allow them to see where their disobedience would take them, thereby setting precedents for all time to come....what wisdom there was in this because the value of free will was at stake, and this precious gift was not to be abused.

What follows now is how God bailed out Adam's children, born into this sinful state through no fault on their part. Jesus came to atone for the sin that Adam passed on to his children. (Romans 5:12) First there was need for a redeemer, required to pay a debt so large, that no human on earth could pay it.

Under God's law...."an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth and a life for a life" indicated an equalizing to balance the scales of God's perfect justice. What Adam lost for his children was perfect sinless life. Adam paid for his sin with his own life, but God sent his son to pay the ransom price (redemption) for the lives of all his offspring.

So Jesus is the key to undoing all the harm that the first rebels wrought on all humankind who descended from them.

In the next post I will address your other points.

[Jemima]

Continued from the last post....

In understanding what the Kingdom of God actually is, we first need to understand what its purpose is, and who is included in that arrangement.

IMV, the kingdom of God was created as the means by which God restores his original purpose for humankind on this earth.
Isaiah 55:11 tells us that what God starts, he finishes.

Because the Kingdom was the theme of Jesus' entire ministry, it was important for his apostles and disciples to understand that they had been chosen for a special assignment.....to be "kings and priests" with Christ in his heavenly kingdom. (Revelation 20:6) He told them that he was going to prepare a place for them in his Father's house and that he would return to take them there to be with him. So there you have the purpose of the Kingdom and the ones who will be rulers there. Kings need subjects and priests need sinners for who to perform their priestly duties. Kings do not rule one another and priests are required to guide and lead sinners to repentance and to instruct us in worship. There are no sinners in heaven.

In Revelation 21:2-4 we see Christ and his bride (those chosen to rule with him in heaven) coming down to bring their rulership to those on earth.....
"I also saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God and prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say: “Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his people. And God himself will be with them. 4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.”

"New Jerusalem" is the heavenly seat of God's worship, just as literal Jerusalem was the centre of God's worship in ancient times with the temple located there.
The earthly arrangement was a 'shadow' of the heavenly one. Jesus returned to heaven to present the value of his sacrifice before God. (Hebrews 9:22-24)
The "former things" that have "passed away" is the world system that the devil created and rules over (1 John 5:19)....then he is confined to a prison with his demons for the whole duration of the Kingdom's rule. (Revelation 20:1-3)

Imagine....no interference from the devil! No one to tempt us or to create trouble, suffering or grief.

So who is included in the heavenly kingdom? The "elect" or "chosen ones"....these are chosen by God and his spirit lets them know that they are anointed for that role, whilst they are still on earth. Those who become "joint-heirs" share that heavenly inheritance with Jesus. But they are limited in number. Not all Christians are "chosen" for a heavenly role because that would then be all 'Chiefs and no Indians'....just as in all governmental arrangements, there is a King or Ruler who is assisted by others who carry out various roles within that arrangement...there are subjects of that government, and a domain over which that rulership is exercised. The "new heaven and the new earth" that the Bible speaks about, is a new heavenly governmental arrangement ruling over a new earthly society. These will then guide and direct all the resurrected ones as they learn about God and the aim of the Kingdom in getting us all back into reconciliation with God. (2 Corinthians 5:18-21) Those chosen for heaven are resurrected "first" (Revelation 20:6) and those of the general resurrection (John 5:28-29) will be brought back, (I believe) in reverse order....a principle expressed the scriptures...."the first will be last and the last, first" would make sense as those who died last would then be there to welcome back their lost loved ones. No one will then come back to a world of strangers.

So where does that leave those who are not "chosen" for a place in heaven? Are they left feeling like they are not good enough? Far from it.....humility dictates that whatever assignment God gives to us, either in heaven or on earth, he is the one who decides, and we are happy to serve our God wherever we find ourselves assigned. All have a role and a place in the Kingdom, either in heaven or on earth. We will all have responsibilities.

The book of life is God's record of our actions and attitudes throughout our lives, but the entry is not indelible until we pass that final test, then all things will return to the way God intended them to be from the beginning......it was a huge but necessary detour to get there, so that this can never happen again. Free will is retained and we have all learned to use it to benefit others, not just ourselves. There will be no excuses to break God's laws in the future.....and those who have learned the lesson well, will never want to.

The Kingdom is to rule for 1,000 years bringing all obedient humanity back into the same sinless condition as their forefather Adam when God first created him.
Then the devil will be released from his prison to tempt mankind one last time......he will use nothing new, but the same old tactics that he used in Eden and throughout history.....tempting them by offering things that self serving, not God serving. Unfortunately he will be successful again but once the defectors are identified they will, along with the tempter be eliminated from existence forever.
Then Christ will hand the reigns back to God to continue what he began.....whatever that proves to be is exciting because we can be there to share in it.

[POI]

Inexorable means "impossible to stop or prevent."

Right; they will not choose against their nature or contrary to their heart (who they are). It is impossible to stop or prevent, because they are wholly and freely inclined to one choice (the right one) rather than the other.

Their "nature" was given to them by God. Why not just give this "nature" to all?

I guess God has His reasons. It seems appropriate here to quote Paul (again) from Romans 11: "Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and how inscrutable His ways! For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been His counselor?” As for your question here, you're asking about universalism, which some people do believe, but is not Biblical.

It was you, whom brought up the topic of God causing some to be inexorably drawn to Him. Which means, once He does so, it is impossible for the elect to stop or prevent being drawn to Him. Prior to God electing such an individual, they were not inexorably drawn to Him. Hence, it was not the will of the human recipient. The fact that He does not do this for all, seems a little suspect? If your only answer here, is that "God has His reasons", for not electing everyone, then I guess you can just use this answer for any seemingly "unjustifiable" and/or unexplained situation.

...if you are caused to be inexorably drawn to (something), you will have no choice but to pick that (something).

No, you will desire to make no other choice, or that choice will be (by far) the only logical and prudent choice to make, and you will thus make it.

Right, because God caused you to be drawn to Him, and one could make no other choice.

But it's not that they "can make no other choice," it's that their new heart will not drive the person to desire to make those other choices, but rather cause the desire in the person to make the right choice. The ones who are drawn to Him make their own free will choice among other options. And everyone has that same opportunity. As Paul says in Romans 1, what can be known about God is clearly seen by all, so there is no excuse. Universalism would violate God's justice and His glory, and His Word is clear that He will not do that.

1. Again, we already went over the definition of inexorable. --> Impossible to stop or prevent. God elects some, and not others.

2. Why would 'universalism' violate God's justice and His glory? Does He say this, or are you saying this?

3. And BTW, I disagree with Paul here; and so do many. The more I look, the less I see any Christian God there... This must mean the devil is doing his work well with me

Right, rinse/repeat. Right back at you, POI. See above. The desire in the person is to choose the right because of the new heart, the new nature, and make that choice he/she will.

Welp, luckily here, we can turn to science. The heart pumps blood. All cognition comes from the brain alone. The last I checked, (the severely brain damaged / cognitive impaired) cannot engage. To my knowledge, newborns do not really engage either. Does God regenerate these folks in some way, so they may rationally make a conscious choice?

So, care to redact your prior assertion of 'sin is sin' yet?

Nope.

Okay, let the contradiction continue then...

Can we then remove the topic of 'repent' off the table, and only focus on belief/faith?

If you want, sure. I would recommend it, if only for your sake.

I was trying to give you an out. But I guess you are not ready Okay, fair enough... We shall continue...

You cannot have your cake, and eat it too. You must either redact your prior statement, that 'sin is sin' (or) admit to special pleading for some 'sin' (i.e.) lies, theft, trespassing.

Some sins are certainly more heinous than others, but sin is sin; God hates sin... all sin, regardless exactly what it is. In drawing from the Old Testament in Romans 6, Paul does not say, "the wages of certain sins is death," but rather, "the wages of sin is death."

Another contradictory statement... If sin is sin, then one sin is no more heinous than the next.

LOL! Sin is sin, but the heinousness of certain sins can certainly be lesser or greater than other sins. Heinousness denotes hatefulness and/or evil intent, and certainly, some sins can be more hateful or intentionally evil than others. But still, in the eyes of God, sin is still sin, regardless of heinousness.

If sin is sin, there would be no 'but' There is also no 'lesser/greater' if "sin is sin".

And if heinousness refers to intent, then you are just as culpable for your intentional lies, as you are for any other intentional 'sin'. And you will willfully lie until you die. We've been over this... Hence, you are a heinous human being. So, how much repent, for your heinous and evil acts, is enough? I guess we still need to establish what constitutes true 'repent'? And then we can explore if the repent is a one time occurrence, to catch all passed/present/future 'sins', or if you need to repeat this act daily/other?

-- This is why I also asked if there exist any such thing as a "good sin"?

Right, and I said no.

If no sin is acceptable, and sin is sin, and you will willfully lie, for the rest of your life, then you are not repenting of sin; unless you wish to again redact the necessity of 'repent" for salvation.

Forgiveness is still possible, as I said in the previous post. Even forgiveness for lack of true repentance. One can still be repentant without absolutely repenting and thus abstaining (due to his/her sinful nature).

So true repent, whatever this actually means, is not actually a requirement for Heavenly salvation. Great. It took about 15 exchanges, but I guess we can now check this one off the list now.

And until you also care to qualify HOW much "repent" is necessary, you have no clue if you are saved.

Um, well, it should be clear from my last two or three posts (at least) that true, absolute, perfect repentance is not necessary, but a repentant, contrite heart is. And this repentant, contrite heart is the product of faith. So yes, let's talk about faith, POI, as you yourself suggested (but didn't follow through with). Faith, POI ~ faith resulting in salvation ~ is defined by the Bible itself in Hebrews 11:1, is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Two things to say to this: (1) An assurance and conviction is internal, certainly, but is given to us from outside ourselves by... something, and (2) we can easily see in Ephesians 2:8 that true, saving faith is given to us (Christians) by God, by Whose grace (Christians) have been saved through faith, and this is not (our) own doing (but) the gift of God. So, far from "having no clue if (I am) saved," I am assured by the Lord that I am saved.

Welp, you already voluntarily dismissed 'repent'. So we are right back to simply speaking about remorse/regret again... But we have already established that you cannot even be truly remorseful/regretful, if you willfully continue in doing the same sin. (i.e.) lying or homosexuality

And in regards to 'faith', I dropped all previous conversation about "faith", as soon as you asserted that God causes some to be inexorably drawn to Him. Your faith is given to you, and you do not even know why.

[POI]

I would like to address all the posters who responded to my previous reply.....(POI PinSeeker and myth-one.com)

Can you please address post #140?

[Jemima]

Your understanding looks to be that the chosen few will be elected to govern/preach/council the ones not elected. Sounds like more of a perpetual job, verses a "Heavenly realm"

Yes it is a perpetual job in a heavenly realm.....God has designed us to be like him....workers. (John 5:17) We have an assignment and we are beautifully designed by our Creator for the task at hand.....but in Eden, we lost both our perfection and our assignment, these won't come back until we return to the paradise we lost. That is what the Kingdom is for...the means to restore all that was taken away from us at the beginning.

1. To your understanding, does the Bible tell the reader how many of these folks will be elected?
2. What does it take to be elected into this role?

Yes...144,000, chosen from among mankind for an assignment in the Kingdom. (Revelation 14:1-5) These will be resurrected first. (Revelation 20:6)
Their election is by God's spirit bearing witness to their spirit. It creates a very close bond with God and Christ in a way that those who are not chosen do not comprehend.....it isn't a hope that maybe they will go to heaven, but a strong conviction that they must. (Romans 8:14-17)

It is natural for all humans to desire to live in paradise, but that is not heaven. Paradise is somewhere you share with your loved ones, its where God put Adam and his wife to have children and to live forever with them here on earth. But heaven is a completely different realm, requiring that these humans shed their physical bodies and be transformed into spirit beings in order to take up their assignment. This requires an anointing with God's spirit that actually overrides all physical relationships.....the desire is very strong, but some zealous ones may entertain a delusion about this.....it doesn't matter because at the end of the day those heaven bound will find themselves there and those who are not will remain on earth. There is no distinction between the two whilst they remain in the flesh.....all are equal in their service to God, happy to serve in whatever capacity is given them. Even a little toe has a place in the body.

1. So when the dead baby is resurrected on earth, are they allowed time to mature; to make sound choices - (when capable)?

Yes. One must be a servant of God of their own free will. All who are resurrected are still free willed, so by educating them in God's ways without any interference from the devil (who is by then imprisoned in an abyss with his henchmen) life will become what God intended it to be from the beginning.
But should any decide to exercise their free will in an abusive way, they will not be allowed to remain to spoil things for others.

2. What if the rest of the family is in the elected category (Heaven)? Who raises the infant?

That remains to be seen, but I am sure that there will be no end of volunteers to do the job. Surrogacy was practiced in Israel.

1. Are the ones, which are allowed to make the choice, always granted the conclusion of their choice?

No...there is strict criteria, just as there was in Eden....obedience to God's commands will guarantee continuance of life....disobedience will incur death...."the second death", from which there is no resurrection.

I have heard that many atheists consider a life controlled by God to be their version of hell...I can assure them that they will never be forced to live that life...or any other. They believe that this life is all there is and for them, that will be true. (be careful what you wish for)

Meaning, assuming Stalin was not part of the elect to Heaven, when Stalin is resurrected and chooses God, is his wish granted, no matter what? Meaning, is it really his choice alone? Or, must he follow some sort of protocol, after his resurrection, to prove his worth?

The only ones who are chosen for positions in heaven have already proven faithful to death. Stalin, Hitler, PolPot, Idi Armin, or any other wicked dictatorial rulers will never attain heaven.
There are two kinds of death as Jesus mentioned.....one means they have opportunity for resurrection, and the other means complete annihilation. "Hades" releases its dead....."gehenna" does not. You have to be incorrigibly wicked to go to gehenna. Jesus sentenced the Pharisees to that place because they saw with their own eyes the working of God's spirit through Jesus Christ, and denied it. Only God knows who is incorrigibly wicked, so it is not up to us to determine who is where. Gehenna never gives up its dead. It is not a place or torture or conscious existence. Its a place of non existence....never even to be remembered.

2. And if Stalin decides not to choose God, is he simply erased, or, instead sent to a physical eternal conscious hell?

There is only everlasting life or everlasting death.....there is nothing else.

1. I'm speaking to another about repentance.... Is it enough to harbor guilt/remorse about an action, and maybe even ask for forgiveness of that particular invoked transgression? Or, must you not actively willfully perform that 'sin' again? (i.e.) Both 'homosexuality' and 'lies' are considered transgressions.

God understands the difference between a moment of weakness and willful disobedience from a wicked heart. God's law demonstrated this in the law regarding murder. e.g. Manslaughter committed in a flash of anger was not treated in the same way as pre-meditated murder.
Repentance has to include a determination not to repeat the sin.
Guilt is given to us as a way to determine that we have done wrong but it was never intended to hang around to keep slapping us.....it is meant to motivate us to make things right with God again. Even very serious sin can be forgiven. (e.g. Manasseh)

2. Does sin have a ranking system? If so, how does one evaluate which sin is a greater offense? Or...

The Bible itself outlines what is serious sin and what is a lesser one by what penalty was applied. Capitol offenses incurred the death penalty, others required compensation to a victim. Those that incurred death, were the serious ones.

3. If all sin is deemed equally as bad, then we can explore both 'homosexuality' and 'lies' moving forward.

All sin is a result of imperfection, and for Adam's offspring, they had no choice but to inherit this propensity to do, think, and say the wrong thing.
But there are two kind of sin....one is the imperfection in us that leads to bad decisions, wrong actions, aging, sickness and death....and the other is the actions we commit purposely, despite the warnings from God's word that such things are not forgivable if there is no repentance.

Well, then if it required to keep all of the Commandments, all the time, then no one could ever go to Heaven. The Bible states all {mere humans} will sin. However, if repentance negates or absolves the prior transgression, we need to know what constitutes true 'repentance'?

We already know what constitutes true repentance.....it is a commitment to God to try hard in the future not to repeat a sin, or to commit any others....but realistically, God already knows that sin is powerful in us. As long as we display genuine repentance, what John the Baptist told the Pharisees applies...."produce the fruits that befit repentance" (Luke 3:8) IOW, live your life in a way that brings God's approval.

- Are earnest deathbed conversions, by way of belief and repent to the Christian God, enough?

I don't think so, unless you die before the end comes,

Wait a minute? Has the end already come and pass? If not, then your answer makes little sense?

Deathbed confessions are usually based on Jesus words to the evildoer who was hung alongside him, (Luke 23:43) but Jesus words to this criminal were not promising him heaven. Jesus did not mention heaven, he said that this man would be with him "in paradise".....referring to the resurrection of even unrighteous ones in the new world to come. (John 5:28-29; Acts 24:15) Those taken to heaven will have served faithfully to their death, having a fine record of their faithful service to God.

How do you know if you love God more than you love anyone/anything else? Is it based upon your actions, other?

Getting to know God is like getting to know your marriage mate. You might start off awkwardly but as you get to know them and their qualities, your 'like' turns to 'love' and you want to be with that person as much as possible and the relationship develops to the point where you want to spend the rest of your life with that one. As the years progress, for some, love grows and matures to a oneness of spirit so that you fully understand how two can become one.

Our relationship with God goes along similar lines. We don't have the ability to keep personal company with him, but in his correspondence to us, he reveals who he really is and we come to admire him in many ways. The way that we would know how much we love him, is in asking ourselves if we would die for him? Would we put his principles into practice even if it meant punishment....even death?
For the first Christians, getting attacked by wild animals in an arena for the entertainment of the crowds, could have been avoided by simply putting a pinch of incense onto the alter as an act of worship to the Emperor. They could have walked free...but they refused. There is the answer.

Seems as though it would not be logically possible to actually love God more than anything else without getting rid of all but the minimum essentials? The more items in your possession, the higher the likelihood to covet. If you truly love God, above all else, wouldn't it be wise to get rid of virtually everything material, (aside from a modest place to sleep and food for the day)? If you truly love God, above all else, wouldn't it be wise to work, give most of your earnings to others in need, and only keep what is necessary for survival.

God does not seem to speaking very highly of the 'rich'. How do you know you are not considered 'rich'? Maybe your priorities are not where you think they are?

What did Jesus say? "No one can slave for two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will stick to the one and despise the other. You cannot slave for God and for Riches.".....
Or Paul's words to Timothy?...
"To be sure, there is great gain in godly devotion along with contentment. 7 For we have brought nothing into the world, and neither can we carry anything out. 8 So, having food and clothing, we will be content with these things.
9 But those who are determined to be rich fall into temptation and a snare and many senseless and harmful desires that plunge men into destruction and ruin. 10 For the love of money is a root of all sorts of injurious things, and by reaching out for this love some have been led astray from the faith and have stabbed themselves all over with many pains."
There is nothing wrong with having possessions as long as you are content with them.....not constantly chasing after material things as if wants become needs. Paul says food and clothing are necessities, so to be content with our lot. The less you have, the less time you need to maintain them. Its all about our attitude. Money is not the root of all evil, but the love of it is.

- Can you be saved if you practice monogamous homosexuality until death?

A loaded question......
The answer from the Bible is....No. Because to have sexual relations with someone to whom you are not scripturally married is to commit sexual immorality. That is a crime against God and it doesn't matter what gender you are. Marriage is between a man and a woman because the act of sexual intercourse is primarily for the production of children. Pregnancy is not an unwanted side effect of someone's sex life and the sacred seed of life has a purpose and a place.....not in homosexual sex.

But what if you 'repent'?

Anyone can repent. I know many in my brotherhood have repented and left SS relationships. They saw it as their sacrifice made to God to comply with his laws. It did not mean that they were no longer homosexual, but no longer practicing immorality. People cannot help their sexual identity, but there is no justification for breaking God's laws.
This is how we show him how much we love him. He sacrificed for us, and we can sacrifice for him. He is at present teaching the world what it means to live without his guidance and direction.....what a mess! Even if we practice God's moral requirements ourselves, we live in a world of moral degradation that can rub off on us and cause us to lower our own standards. It takes commitment to stand out as different.....the courage of our convictions.

Take care and thank you for your replies....

[POI]

1. To your understanding, does the Bible tell the reader how many of these folks will be elected?

Yes...144,000, chosen from among mankind for an assignment in the Kingdom.

Thank you! This is why I asked this specific question. Sounds like you are a Jehovah's Witness, right? I know you stated we should not grant 'labels', but I feel this will streamline the conversation a bit

[Jemima]

1. To your understanding, does the Bible tell the reader how many of these folks will be elected?

Yes...144,000, chosen from among mankind for an assignment in the Kingdom.

Thank you! This is why I asked this specific question. Sounds like you are a Jehovah's Witness, right? I know you stated we should not grant 'labels', but I feel this will streamline the conversation a bit

Yes, but I do not want labels to get in the way of the conversation......the topic is what is important, and what the scriptures actually say in total, should be our aim in understanding the difficult questions......not my religion or yours. Agreed?

[POI]

1. To your understanding, does the Bible tell the reader how many of these folks will be elected?

Yes...144,000, chosen from among mankind for an assignment in the Kingdom.

Thank you! This is why I asked this specific question. Sounds like you are a Jehovah's Witness, right? I know you stated we should not grant 'labels', but I feel this will streamline the conversation a bit

Yes, but I do not want labels to get in the way of the conversation......

Sure, I get what you are saying. But I feel this 'label' is kind of important... Your specific doctrine sparks a completely new direction, in regards to salvation.

the topic is what is important, and what the scriptures actually say in total, should be our aim in understanding the difficult questions......not my religion or yours. Agreed?

Sure. But to my current understanding, your specific religion is the only one which deems blood transfusions a sin, right? If you don't mind, I would like to start here....

Starting anew, I'll slightly tweak the OP introduction:

According to the Bible, can a willful recipient of a blood product(s) transfusion achieve salvation?

[Jemima]

Thank you! This is why I asked this specific question. Sounds like you are a Jehovah's Witness, right? I know you stated we should not grant 'labels', but I feel this will streamline the conversation a bit

It is true that JW's see things completely differently to Christendom's established line of teachings. But in prophesy, we see that Daniel foretold that this would be the case in "the time of the end". We believe that we are deep into that time right now by studying Daniel's prophesies.

At Daniel 12:4....God says to Daniel....
"But as for you, Daniel, keep these words secret and seal up the book until the end of time; many will roam about, and knowledge will increase.” (NASB)

We see there that all of Daniel's prophesies pertain to "the time of the end" and that no one would understand them until that time.....God would also increase knowledge of many things then.

God went on to tell Daniel in verses 9, 10.....
“Go your way, Daniel, for these words will be kept secret and sealed up until the end time. 10 Many will be purged, cleansed, and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand."

So in "the time of the end" a 'cleansing' and 'refining' of God's worshippers was to take place. 'Purged' of all the filth that had been added over many centuries, God would inspire some to begin that purging. Men began to really examine the scriptures to see if what they had been taught all this time, was really from the Bible. To their horror, they saw that Christianity had been completely corrupted by doctrines invented by men under the influence of the one Jesus said would introduce a fake kind of 'weedy' Christianity to draw people away....and that is what we see in Christendom. Hopelessly divided and completely alienated from God by their own adopted teachings.

During the time of the apostles, God restrained this foretold apostasy whilst the Christian scriptures were penned, but after their death, the restraint was lifted, and the devil did to Christianity exactly what he had done to Judaism.
Matthew 15:7-9...quoting Isaiah 29:18 Jesus said to the Jewish religious leaders...
"You hypocrites, rightly did Isaiah prophesy about you, by saying:
8 ‘This people honors Me with their lips,
But their heart is far away from Me.
9 And in vain do they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

The apostle Paul, in warning his fellow Christians about Christ's return and their heavenly reward, said...
"No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction".
That "man of lawlessness" we believe is representative of the clergy of Christendom.....the real anti-Christ.
He spoke about that "lawlessness" as already "at work" back then, so he went on to say....
"For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until he is removed."

This apostasy had to come before Christ returned and once the apostles had passed away ("been removed") there was no longer anyone to stop the 'leaven from fermenting the whole lump'.

So there you have the reason why we believe differently to Christendom. We cleaned up our worship by gradually getting rid of the things that contaminated it. We eliminated the trinity....teachings of an immortal soul....and hellfire, because these things are clearly from paganism, dressed up to look like Christianity. None of these are found in the Bible. But the purging did not stop there.....over time we have continued to refine our beliefs by searching the scriptures in their entirety to find the truth. Its been a very enlightening journey.

I get what you are saying. But I feel this 'label' is kind of important... Your specific doctrine sparks a completely new direction, in regards to salvation.

And we are very grateful not to still be lost in the conflicting ideas that Christendom still teaches. I came out of that mess and to this day, I still can't understand that people still believe what I came to understand was nothing to do with Christ's teachings. But as God said, the wicked would continue to act wickedly and would be granted no insight or understanding. I guess that is why....

As Paul continues...."8 Then that lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will eliminate with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not accept the love of the truth so as to be saved. 11 For this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they will believe what is false, 12 in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness."

It all happened just as the scriptures said it must.

But to my current understanding, your specific religion is the only one which deems blood transfusions a sin, right? If you don't mind, I would like to start here....

Starting anew, I'll slightly tweak the OP introduction:

According to the Bible, can a willful recipient of a blood product(s) transfusion achieve salvation?

OK, I can see that this is important to you, so lets examine the subject....

What was God's law on the consumption of blood and why did he give it in three different eras?
After the flood of Noah's day God gave this command...
"Every moving thing that is alive shall be food for you; I have given everything to you, as I gave the green plant. 4 But you shall not eat flesh with its life, that is, its blood." (Genesis 9:3-4 NASB)

In God's law to Israel he said...
"For as for the life of all flesh, its blood is identified with its life. Therefore I said to the sons of Israel, ‘You are not to eat the blood of any flesh, for the life of all flesh is its blood; whoever eats it shall be cut off.’"
Blood is the very symbol of life and therefore it is sacred to God. No one was to consume blood because to be "cut off" meant death. So consuming or shedding blood was a capital offense.

And again in Acts 15:28-29, it it mentioned again as one of the "essential" or "necessary" things for a Christians.

So why do JW's refuse blood transfusions? Because to transfuse blood (to us) is the equivalent of 'eating' it. When a person cannot eat after perhaps a surgical procedure, they are fed intravenously, so for us the method of consumption is the same as if we were eating it. So there is the scriptural reason for why we refuse a blood transfusion. So is that a form of suicide? If you listen to the media, you would assume that it is a ridiculous thing to do if it will save your life....but is it the best therapy available? The medical profession used to think so, but now informed medical professionals are taking a different approach by avoiding blood transfusions....in fact whole hospitals are now dedicated to non-blood management of their patients and are seeing great success with less mortality and morbidity than when they were using blood routinely.

Please watch the following video that was released through the Australian Government's Blood Authority website....it was posted some time ago and even greater progress has been made since. Blood is not the "be all and end all" of medical treatment and this has shown the medical profession that we were not so wrong about blood all along.
The title really doesn't match the content.....so listen carefully for the words "morbidity" (adverse outcomes) and "mortality" (death) and see what these specialists are admitting.....

https://www.blood.gov.au/media

Over to you....