#1 Jesus on hell

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Wootah
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#1 Jesus on hell

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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?v ... 18%3A21-35
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, “Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?”

22 Jesus said to him, “I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. 24 And when he had begun to settle accounts, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents. 25 But as he was not able to pay, his master commanded that he be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and that payment be made. 26 The servant therefore fell down before him, saying, ‘Master, have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 27 Then the master of that servant was moved with compassion, released him, and forgave him the debt.

28 “But that servant went out and found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii; and he laid hands on him and took him by the throat, saying, ‘Pay me what you owe!’ 29 So his fellow servant fell down [a]at his feet and begged him, saying, ‘Have patience with me, and I will pay you all.’ 30 And he would not, but went and threw him into prison till he should pay the debt. 31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should pay all that was due to him.

35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother [c]his trespasses.”


Jesus tells a parable where the master actually tortures the unforgiving servant until he pays all that was due to him and after the parable says God will do this to each of us if we do not forgive each other.

* You can't torture a dead person or an annihilated person, so we know we have to be alive to be tortured.
* We can't pay our debt against God so we know the punishment is eternal.

How is that not a judgement of hell that supports traditional doctrine?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #261

Post by PinSeeker »

onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:49 am Yes, of course Satan cannot stop the spread of the good news to the nations.
Right. He's totally bound from doing so, which is exactly what John says in Revelation 20:1-3.
onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:49 am When in the abyss, he will not be doing anything.
No, but when he's in the "lake of fire," he will be exerting no influence on anyone here in the new heaven and new earth. There, he will be in torment for eternity (day and night forever).

Grace and peace to you.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #262

Post by myth-one.com »

PinSeeker wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 11:58 am
onewithhim wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:49 am Yes, of course Satan cannot stop the spread of the good news to the nations.
Right. He's totally bound from doing so, which is exactly what John says in Revelation 20:1-3.
Satan stops mankind from spreading the good news to all the nations.

Satan will be bound when the good news is spread by an angel sent from god:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

If God had to send an angel to preach the gospel to all nations, then mankind failed to preach the gospel to all nations.

Why did mankind fail?

Because most Christians believe that mankind is born with an immortal soul and cannot perish as the scriptures clearly state.

Since we live forever, we must live somewhere. Christians proclaim they spend eternity in heaven while all others burn in hell forever.

Churches which preach that are not spreading the good news of the gospel to anyone. Thus we fail to fulfill the Great Commission.

Why do the churches believe this?

Because Satan told us that we live forever:

And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: (Genesis 3:4)

Have a nice day.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #263

Post by PinSeeker »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:47 pm Satan stops mankind from spreading the good news to all the nations.
No... No, he doesn't, myth-one. No.
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:47 pm Satan will be bound when the good news is spread by an angel sent from god...
Nope. Bound now, unable to stop the spread of the good news to the nations. The reach of the message to all nations fulfills the promise made to Abraham that all peoples will be blessed (Gen. 12:3).
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:47 pm Why did mankind fail? ... Thus we fail to fulfill the Great Commission.
Mankind will not fail in spreading the Gospel and fulfilling the Great Commission, because it's really the power of God making it happen, bringing His kingdom, His Israel, containing both Jew and Gentile, to its fullness. This is exactly what Jesus said when He issued the Great Commission, as we see in Matthew 28:19-20 (emphasis added)...
  • "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age."
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:47 pm Because most Christians believe that mankind is born with an immortal soul and cannot perish as the scriptures clearly state.
Yes, and you still will not hear that perishing/dying is something quite different than you imagine.
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 4:47 pm Have a nice day.
Same to you, my friend. Grace and peace to you.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #264

Post by myth-one.com »

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #264]


One sign of the end times is that the gospel must first be preached in the entire world before the end of this age, the age of man, occurs:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

And the gospel must first be published among all nations. (Mark 13:10)


Gospel means the good news of Christ and His teachings in the scriptures. The "Great Commission" commands Christians to spread the gospel among all nations:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

But shortly before the end of the age, God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophecy before the end of this age can occur:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Therefore, Christians will not succeed in preaching the gospel to all the nations!



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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #265

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myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:33 pm One sign of the end times is that the gospel must first be preached in the entire world before the end of this age, the age of man, occurs:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

And the gospel must first be published among all nations. (Mark 13:10)
Published like a book, or just told to a given percentage of a population?
Gospel means the good news of Christ and His teachings in the scriptures. The "Great Commission" commands Christians to spread the gospel among all nations:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)
The inhabitants of North Sentinel Island off of India don't allow vistors. What then?
But shortly before the end of the age, God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophecy before the end of this age can occur:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Therefore, Christians will not succeed in preaching the gospel to all the nations!
So they have to fulfill the one prophecy up top there, but they'll fail?

How's that work?
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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #266

Post by myth-one.com »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 7:33 pm One sign of the end times is that the gospel must first be preached in the entire world before the end of this age, the age of man, occurs:
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

And the gospel must first be published among all nations. (Mark 13:10)
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:33 pmPublished like a book, or just told to a given percentage of a population?
Everyone must understand the gospel message, by whatever means.
Gospel means the good news of Christ and His teachings in the scriptures. The "Great Commission" commands Christians to spread the gospel among all nations:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:33 pmThe inhabitants of North Sentinel Island off of India don't allow vistors. What then?
There's the internet and other means.
But shortly before the end of the age, God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophecy before the end of this age can occur:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

Therefore, Christians will not succeed in preaching the gospel to all the nations!
JoeyKnothead wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 8:33 pmSo they have to fulfill the one prophecy up top there, but they'll fail?

How's that work?
The gospel must be preached to all the world before the end of time occurs. It doesn't have to be accomplished by Christians.

Christians were assigned that task. But they fail at it.

So God sends an angel to carry out that work.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #267

Post by JehovahsWitness »

myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:43 pm
The gospel must be preached to all the world before the end of time occurs. ...Christians were assigned that task. But they fail at it.

Which scripture says Christians will fail in their assignment ?


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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #268

Post by myth-one.com »

JehovahsWitness wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 2:31 am
myth-one.com wrote: Wed Aug 25, 2021 10:43 pm
The gospel must be preached to all the world before the end of time occurs. ...Christians were assigned that task. But they fail at it.
Which scripture says Christians will fail in their assignment ?
The Second Coming and the end of times cannot occur until the gospel is preached to the entire world:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

And the gospel must first be published among all nations. (Mark 13:10)


The "Great Commission" commands Christians to perform this work:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:19-20)

But shortly before the end of the age, God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophecy so that the end of this age can occur:

And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people. (Revelation 14:6)

If God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophesy so that He can return, then Christians did not succeed in preaching the gospel to all the nations!

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #269

Post by PinSeeker »

There are actually three angelic proclaimers in Revelation 14:6-11, not just one:
  • The first angel calls on al to repent (vv.6-7).
  • The second angel announces the fall of Babylon, who seduced the nations (v.9).
  • And the third angel elaborates on the fearsome judgment that comes to the unrepentant, the followers of the Beast. This threat is simultaneously an encouragement to the saints. It encourages them to hold fast even under intense suffering. Their suffering is but little in comparison with the wrath of God. It also shows that ultimate vindication will come (vv.9-13).
These three together, with their respective announcements, belong together as a symbolic history, placed just before Christ's Second Coming, the return of the Son of Man (14:14). Together, this is a final solemn warning concerning the coming judgment and the necessity of repenting if one is to escape judgment. God may, of course, send extraordinary warnings just before and during the final crisis leading to Christ's Second Coming. But the message here has a point throughout the church age; through the church and through preaching, not merely directly through literal angels, the Lord gives warning to the unrepentant world.

There is no literal angel literally sent by God at any point to fulfill the Great Commission. The Great Commission is not a prophecy but a command, a mandate and a commissioning given by Christ Jesus to His disciples... and by extension to us. The Great Commission is fulfilled through Christians by the power of God, as Christ Himself indicates in His issuing of the Great Commission itself, promising to be with us always.

Revelation is apocalyptic literature and should be read as such, rather than as we would a Dick and Jane first grade primer.

Gotta love how these threads evolve and branch out into all kinds of stuff... :)

Grace and peace to all.

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Re: #1 Jesus on hell

Post #270

Post by JehovahsWitness »

I dont see the word "fail" in any of those scriptures.
myth-one.com wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 7:51 am If God has to send an angel to fulfill this prophesy so that He can return, then Christians did not succeed in preaching the gospel to all the nations!

Not necessarily.


1. Angels have historically been supporters of God's human servants as they fulfill their commission, not replacements.

2. If Jesus is with his disciples until the end of the system, any their "failure" on their part would also be his - which is impossible


3. The bible indicates Jesus will commend his faithful servants upon his return for a job well done (Mat 25:22-23)

Regardless of whether the angels finally assist or replace, Christians have the commission to preach and to keep doing so right up until the end of the system of things. Biblically success is nit measured by results but by doing Gods will wholehearedly. Only God has the authority to pronouce their work a success or a failure and there is absolutely no scripture in the bible which states he will do the latter.



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