Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

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Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

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Post by Wootah »

https://biblehub.com/luke/20-38.htm
37Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush. For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”
Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

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Post by Wootah »

1213 wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:06 pm
Wootah wrote: Mon Aug 16, 2021 6:16 pm https://biblehub.com/luke/20-38.htm
37Even Moses demonstrates that the dead are raised, in the passage about the burning bush. For he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’ 38 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to Him all are alive.”
Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?
I believe they are alive.
In what sense? Can they think and reason and talk with God?
Proverbs 18:17 The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

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Post by PinSeeker »

1213 wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:06 pm
Are Abraham, Isaac and Jacob alive or dead right now?
I believe they are alive.
Actually, both are true, it just depends on which perspective you ask the question from. You know, there were two guys crucified with Jesus, on on His left and one on His right. Jesus told the thief on His right that he would be with Him that day in paradise. Well, they both died on their respective crosses. So, are they dead? Or are they alive? The answer is, and can be nothing other than, a resounding "Yes." :) The same is true for Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.

Grace and peace to you.
Last edited by PinSeeker on Wed Aug 18, 2021 1:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

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Post by Diagoras »

2timothy316 wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:59 pmThey are asleep in death, waiting to hear the voice of their master to wake them.
What does 'asleep in death' actually mean? How is it different from plain 'death'?

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

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Post by 2timothy316 »

Diagoras wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 9:33 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 4:59 pmThey are asleep in death, waiting to hear the voice of their master to wake them.
What does 'asleep in death' actually mean? How is it different from plain 'death'?
Do you consider a person that is sleeping as dead? No. Because you can wake them up or they can wake up on their own.

From God's and Jesus' stand point since they can wake a person from death, to them they are just sleeping. Though to us because we can't wake them, they're dead.
Lazarus was dead for days before Jesus brought him back to life. Yet Jesus viewed it as 'awaking him'.
"“Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him." John 11:11

A person is only dead forever if God considers them dead. Otherwise, anyone that can live again is not considered dead from God's point of view. Thus Abraham, Issac, Jacob are alive but just 'asleep in death'. They are not asleep in death for a few days like Lazarus but asleep in death for thousands of years. But to God and those asleep in death, time spent asleep in death means nothing. A few days or thousands of years, it makes no difference to a God that can make them live at a time of His choosing.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

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Post by Eloi »

The first step in understanding a text is reading it in its context.

Luke 20:36 In fact, neither can they die anymore, for they are like the angels, and they are God’s children by being children of the resurrection. 37 But that the dead are raised up, even Moses made known in the account about the thornbush, when he calls Jehovah ‘the God of Abraham and God of Isaac and God of Jacob.’ 38 He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him.”

What is the topic Jesus is talking about?

One thing is how we humans understand death and quite another is how Jehovah God distinguishes his servants even when they fell asleep in death.

Rom. 4:17 (This is just as it is written: “I have appointed you a father of many nations.”) This was in the sight of God, in whom he had faith, who makes the dead alive and calls the things that are not as though they are.

Human death has been a reality since the fall. The Bible describes it as being asleep, and dead persons come out only when they are raised ... then they wake up.

Dan. 12:13 “But as for you, go on to the end. You will rest, but you will stand up for your lot at the end of the days.”

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #16

Post by 1213 »

Wootah wrote: Tue Aug 17, 2021 5:31 pm ...
In what sense? Can they think and reason and talk with God?
I think so. But, I think they are alive as spiritual bodies, not natural.

It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body and there is also a spiritual body.
1 Cor. 15:44

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #17

Post by Diagoras »

2timothy316 wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:30 amDo you consider a person that is sleeping as dead? No. Because you can wake them up or they can wake up on their own.

From God's and Jesus' stand point since they can wake a person from death, to them they are just sleeping. Though to us because we can't wake them, they're dead.

Lazarus was dead for days before Jesus brought him back to life. Yet Jesus viewed it as 'awaking him'.
"“Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him." John 11:11
How about people who have been dead for longer? How is a decomposing body (or a skeleton, or indeed not even that) dealt with?

A person is only dead forever if God considers them dead.
Presumably, if God kills someone directly, or orders their death - that would apply here.

Could God change his mind and still resurrect someone he'd killed earlier?

A few days or thousands of years, it makes no difference to a God that can make them live at a time of His choosing.
Still leaves the question of what to do with the body. Get a new one? Miraculous repair?

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #18

Post by 2timothy316 »

Diagoras wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:54 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:30 amDo you consider a person that is sleeping as dead? No. Because you can wake them up or they can wake up on their own.

From God's and Jesus' stand point since they can wake a person from death, to them they are just sleeping. Though to us because we can't wake them, they're dead.

Lazarus was dead for days before Jesus brought him back to life. Yet Jesus viewed it as 'awaking him'.
"“Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him." John 11:11
How about people who have been dead for longer? How is a decomposing body (or a skeleton, or indeed not even that) dealt with?
That 's no problem for God who can make a human body from dirt and bring it to life. (Gen 2:7)
He'll most likely give those new bodies. Better ones too. Job 33:21-25 describes flesh fresher than youth.
A person is only dead forever if God considers them dead.
Presumably, if God kills someone directly, or orders their death - that would apply here.

Could God change his mind and still resurrect someone he'd killed earlier?
Yes. In Matt. 11:20-24; Luke 10:11-15 Jesus spoke of those in his day that will suffer a worse judgement sentence than those in the city of Sodom who God destroyed. It says that those in Sodom went down into the grave not Gehenna. Revelation 20:13 says that the grave will give up it's dead. Well, if those in Sodom are only in the grave then they will live again. “I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.”​—ACTS 24:15.

I can comment on what Jesus was talking about in Matt 11:20-24 on how a person can receive a worse judgement sentence than Sodom if you'd like.
A few days or thousands of years, it makes no difference to a God that can make them live at a time of His choosing.
Still leaves the question of what to do with the body. Get a new one? Miraculous repair?
A new one. It appears the resurrections that are coming will be like no other resurrections recorded in the Bible.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #19

Post by PinSeeker »

2timothy316 wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:00 am
Diagoras wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:54 pm How about people who have been dead for longer? How is a decomposing body (or a skeleton, or indeed not even that) dealt with?
That 's no problem for God who can make a human body from dirt and bring it to life. (Gen 2:7)
Agreed. With God all things are possible, of course. Yes, and to add to this answer, God can reconstitute a human body from anything, dirt, ashes, or... nothing. He spoke the universe into existence out of nothingness...
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:00 am He'll most likely give those new bodies. Better ones too. Job 33:21-25 describes flesh fresher than youth.
Disagreed. Reconstitution to a state even far better than before is a better way to understand this. In Revelation 21, God does not say, "I am making all new things," but rather, "I am making all things new."
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:00 am
Diagoras wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:54 pm Could God change his mind and still resurrect someone he'd killed earlier?
Yes. In Matt. 11:20-24; Luke 10:11-15 Jesus spoke of those in his day that will suffer a worse judgement sentence than those in the city of Sodom who God destroyed. It says that those in Sodom went down into the grave not Gehenna. Revelation 20:13 says that the grave will give up it's dead. Well, if those in Sodom are only in the grave then they will live again. “I have hope toward God . . . that there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and the unrighteous.”​—ACTS 24:15.
All will be resurrected physically, some to life and some to judgment (John 5:29). And the citation of Acts 24:15 above is a good one, too.
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:00 am
Diagoras wrote: Wed Aug 18, 2021 6:54 pm
2timothy316 wrote: Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:00 am A few days or thousands of years, it makes no difference to a God that can make them live at a time of His choosing.
Still leaves the question of what to do with the body. Get a new one? Miraculous repair?
A new one. It appears the resurrections that are coming will be like no other resurrections recorded in the Bible.
No, the old will be made new. Again, in Revelation 21, God does not say, "I am making all new things," but rather, "I am making all things new." It probably would be good to read Ezekiel 37 again, too. The valley of dry bones... such a magnificent passage... And all these things have both spiritual and physical -- and temporal and eternal -- ramifications.

Grace and peace to you both.

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Re: Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead

Post #20

Post by William »

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #19]

Timothy: A few days or thousands of years, it makes no difference to a God that can make them live at a time of His choosing.
Diagoras: Still leaves the question of what to do with the body. Get a new one? Miraculous repair?
Timothy: A new one. It appears the resurrections that are coming will be like no other resurrections recorded in the Bible.
PinSeeker: No, the old will be made new.

The once can be made once again.

Who do I talk to to discuss the possibility of designing my own body to accommodate the way I would like it to be?

{I have ideas, you see}

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