The great religious scam

[Eloi]

All believers know very well that false religions exist, that is, they either have beliefs that are erroneous, or that their members and leaders allow / practice things that God condemns, or they stop doing things that God's Word says would be identifying of the true followers of Jesus Christ. Because of that, millions of people have decided that there is not a single religious community that is the true people of God united with whom they should also try to join.

We know that this is so because shortly after the death of the apostles, religious apostasy plunged Christians into very deep darkness, and it was almost impossible to distinguish what was true in religious matters or what should not be done if one was a Christian. , etc. Since then it was as if the few Christians that emerged were born in an exiled country, as when the Jews were exiled in Babylon, a country of many gods and where they had to be very strong to resist the pressure and control of the environment of that system where they had been taken into captivity.

Many years passed until modern times, when a little here and a little there, the Bible became better known, also history, etc. and those who had religious control of the world could not prevent people realizing the religious lies that sincere believers had been subjected to for thousands of years. For example, no longer all believed that they should kneel in front of images, or consider Mary as if she were "mother of God", and so on. This process was necessary for the truths to be clarified, and as Jesus said, the wheat would not be destroyed along with the weeds.

Let's talk a bit about that process in this topic. In that time of captivity in the form of exile, the believers were subjected to many erroneous teachings and religious practices that are still believed in the world, but how can they be discovered?

[Aetixintro]

[Replying to Eloi in post #1]

I see no particular religious scam with the bigger established religions.
If people are finally presented with Utopia, they are likely to embrace it and be happy.
If people are presented with God by science, they are likely to embrace this too!
Original, non-corrupted religious books ensure people stay faithful. In addition comes the words by the best religious leaders.

The future is probably bright. All the World's people are likely to share feelings of global communion (w/o Jesus as such). All the best.

[onewithhim]

Jesus (Matt. 7:15,37-39) and his apostles (Acts 20: 29,30) warned of apostates and the corrupting influence they could exert on the Christian congregation. As far ahead in time as at the end of the first century, many years after being ascended to heaven, Jesus again warned about this:

Rev. 2:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam, <...>

Are you saying that the words of Revelations 2:14 come directly from Jesus, not the author, 'John'?

John just wrote things down. As it says in the first verse in Revelation: "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him...and he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John."

Are you saying that verse 9-10 is not John describing his experience, but John relaying Jesus' experience?

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

or are you saying that it was Johns experience which was relayed to him through 'signs'?

You can tell when John is relating his experience. He is quite clear. It is not John's experience that is relayed through signs. He is seeing it for the first time.

[William]

Jesus (Matt. 7:15,37-39) and his apostles (Acts 20: 29,30) warned of apostates and the corrupting influence they could exert on the Christian congregation. As far ahead in time as at the end of the first century, many years after being ascended to heaven, Jesus again warned about this:

Rev. 2:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam, <...>

Are you saying that the words of Revelations 2:14 come directly from Jesus, not the author, 'John'?

John just wrote things down. As it says in the first verse in Revelation: "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him...and he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John."

Are you saying that verse 9-10 is not John describing his experience, but John relaying Jesus' experience?

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

or are you saying that it was Johns experience which was relayed to him through 'signs'?

You can tell when John is relating his experience. He is quite clear. It is not John's experience that is relayed through signs. He is seeing it for the first time.

His relating of it is after the event.

So what am I not understanding as far as when some argue that it was John relaying Jesus' experience?

[tam]

Peace to you,

I do not disagree that there is a great religious scam. As to how we can know what is (or is not) true:

[Replying to Eloi in post #2]

Col. 2:8 Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;

The only thing to do today is to return to the source of divine knowledge that we have: the written Word of Him ... and humbly accept what it teaches us (2 Tim. 3:16,17).

Please take notice of the last part of the Col 2:8 verse (I bolded and underlined it), as to WHOM we are to listen to and remain in. Because the source is not the bible; the source is Christ: He is the Truth, the Light, the Word of God.

It is not an 'it' that we were given as our Teacher. It is not an 'it' that we were told to listen TO.

It is a PERSON, a WHOM.

Christ Jaheshua, the Holy One of God, is the Teacher (Matt 23:8). Christ is the One to whom God told us to listen (Mark 9:7). He is ALIVE, and as a living being, He teaches and speaks even now. As He said (as is even written), His sheep will listen to His voice; He calls them by name, and they follow Him; and He said also that He had more sheep to call, and they TOO would listen to His voice, and there would be one flock with one Shepherd.

“I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd." John 10:14-16


So yes, as you know, there are many many lies out there about Christ, about God. To know what is true, hold it up to Christ - He is the Light, He is the Truth. If someone teaches something different than Him, the teaching cannot be true.

Hold all things up against the Light - who is Christ.

As Peter said,

"Lord to WHOM will we go? YOU have the words of eternal life."



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[onewithhim]

Jesus (Matt. 7:15,37-39) and his apostles (Acts 20: 29,30) warned of apostates and the corrupting influence they could exert on the Christian congregation. As far ahead in time as at the end of the first century, many years after being ascended to heaven, Jesus again warned about this:

Rev. 2:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam, <...>

Are you saying that the words of Revelations 2:14 come directly from Jesus, not the author, 'John'?

John just wrote things down. As it says in the first verse in Revelation: "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him...and he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John."

Are you saying that verse 9-10 is not John describing his experience, but John relaying Jesus' experience?

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

or are you saying that it was Johns experience which was relayed to him through 'signs'?

You can tell when John is relating his experience. He is quite clear. It is not John's experience that is relayed through signs. He is seeing it for the first time.

His relating of it is after the event.

So what am I not understanding as far as when some argue that it was John relaying Jesus' experience?

The stuff John wrote down had not already happened. The first verse in Revelation says that what Jesus revealed to John would take place in the future. He said that what he was shown would happen "in the Lord's day," which would be the LAST days, or the end times. (Rev.1:10; Matthew 13:39)

Why people think that those things had already happened, I can't understand. Revelation speaks of Satan being destroyed, and that certainly hasn't happened yet. (Rev. 20:10)

.

[William]

Jesus (Matt. 7:15,37-39) and his apostles (Acts 20: 29,30) warned of apostates and the corrupting influence they could exert on the Christian congregation. As far ahead in time as at the end of the first century, many years after being ascended to heaven, Jesus again warned about this:

Rev. 2:14 Nevertheless, I have a few things against you, that you have there those adhering to the teaching of Baʹlaam, <...>

Are you saying that the words of Revelations 2:14 come directly from Jesus, not the author, 'John'?

John just wrote things down. As it says in the first verse in Revelation: "A revelation by Jesus Christ, which God gave him...and he sent his angel and presented it in signs through him to his slave John."

Are you saying that verse 9-10 is not John describing his experience, but John relaying Jesus' experience?

I John, who also am your brother, and companion in tribulation, and in the kingdom and patience of Jesus Christ, was in the isle that is called Patmos, for the word of God, and for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,

or are you saying that it was Johns experience which was relayed to him through 'signs'?

You can tell when John is relating his experience. He is quite clear. It is not John's experience that is relayed through signs. He is seeing it for the first time.

His relating of it is after the event.

So what am I not understanding as far as when some argue that it was John relaying Jesus' experience?

The stuff John wrote down had not already happened. The first verse in Revelation says that what Jesus revealed to John would take place in the future. He said that what he was shown would happen "in the Lord's day," which would be the LAST days, or the end times. (Rev.1:10; Matthew 13:39)

Why people think that those things had already happened, I can't understand. Revelation speaks of Satan being destroyed, and that certainly hasn't happened yet. (Rev. 20:10)

.

That does not answer my question.

When I wrote that "His relating of it is after the event." I meant the event of him having an alternate experience [often referred to as an Astral Experience in today's language.] and then writing of that experience as he recalled it.

It appears to me that John is relaying his experience, not Jesus' experience, which was what my question was about.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #10]

It looks like you didn't check out posts #3 and #6. Would you please do that and respond? Thanks.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #10]

It looks like you didn't check out posts #3 and #6. Would you please do that and respond? Thanks.

Maybe it's really that I didn't respond the way... well, several here... want me to or think I should respond. I really dismissed those posts altogether, to be quite honest. That's certainly not to say that I don't believe there's not a whole lot of false teaching today or that there hasn't always been; one would be foolish to think otherwise. So yeah, there's nothing new under the sun. The apostles and even Jesus Himself warn of false teachers who were around in that day and would be around in the years to come. As for us, I'll just say too that a lot of false teaching started in the West during the Enlightenment and is still being perpetuated today.

Grace and peace to you.

[historia]

The only thing to do today is to return to the source of divine knowledge that we have: the written Word of Him

But who decides what constitutes "the written Word of Him"?

Many of the texts being quoted in this thread, including Revelation, 2 Peter, and the Pastorals, were not universally accepted as authoritative in the early Christian community. And there were many other texts that were ultimately excluded from the New Testament cannon too.

And so, if the early Christian community quickly fell into apostasy, to the point of becoming "unrecognizable," as several here are claiming, why are you all quoting from the books (and only those books) that were chosen by that supposedly apostate Church? Why do you submit to their New Testament canon?

[PinSeeker]

The only thing to do today is to return to the source of divine knowledge that we have: the written Word of Him

But who decides what constitutes "the written Word of Him"?

Many of the texts being quoted in this thread, including Revelation, 2 Peter, and the Pastorals, were not universally accepted as authoritative in the early Christian community. And there were many other texts that were ultimately excluded from the New Testament cannon too.

And so, if the early Christian community quickly fell into apostasy, to the point of becoming "unrecognizable," as several here are claiming, why are you all quoting from the books (and only those books) that were chosen by that supposedly apostate Church? Why do you submit to their New Testament canon?

Excellent questions, historia. This is the problem with not understanding Who the Holy Spirit is and what His role as the third Person of the triune Jehovah is. We believe -- as you may know -- that despite false teaching (and yes, even apostasy and heresy through the centuries), the Holy Spirit not only superintended the writing of the Word but has superintended the preservation of its integrity over the centuries since its writing.

Grace and peace to you.