The Antichrist and Free Will

[Purple Knight]

The Antichrist and Free Will: What if he Doesn't Want the Job?

Question for debate: Does the antichrist have free will? Sub-question: If he does have free will, what if he doesn't want the job? What if, for whatever reason, he refuses to do what he has to do? Will another one be born until one accepts?

Is it possible for the antichrist to be good, if he chooses to be good?

Is the antichrist not a specific person, but a pool of potential candidates perhaps born around the right time?

[2timothy316]

[Replying to William in post #19]

It was actually a play on words by comedian Jeff Foxworthy who was made famous by 'you might be a redneck if...' jokes.

[PinSeeker]

I will say it again...."Antichrist" is not an individual that will make his entrance onto the scene sometime in the future and work marvelous works to fool the people.

Agree. The Antichrist is not a human being. But antichrists, who have his spirit, are, and they have always walked among us and always will... until Christ returns and executes the final Judgment, of course.

Antichrist can be compared to "the man of lawlessness," or, "the son of perdition," referred to in 2 Thessalonians chapter 2. This "son of perdition" is a COMPOSITE "son" and refers to the whole gamut of false Christianity on Earth today...

Well, again, antichrists, those who have the spirit of Antichrist (rather than the Holy Spirit). Which surely is not just referring to "false sons," but unbelievers. But sure. But this Antichrist, Satan himself, will make his final stand at the end of the age, and Christ, upon His triumphant return, will defeat him once and for all. Then the Judgment will ensue directly, after which (and all these are just different ways to say the same thing):

• the goats will be separated from the sheep

• the tares will be separated from the wheat

• the unrepentant will be separated from the repentant

• unbelievers will be separated from believers

• those who do not love Him will be separated from those who do love Him...

You get the idea. And in each case above, the former will depart and enter into their punishment under the permanent judgment of God, absolutely apart from Him and the latter group, for eternity.

,,,the RCC, Orthodox, Protestants, Mormons, and anyone else who considers themselves Christians but prove false to the name by their actions.

Well, members of all those groups, sure. Jehovah's Witnesses and any other group included. Yes, those who are and/or will be in Christ will number as the stars in the heavens and as the grains of sand on the seashore -- no man will be able to count them -- and include folks hailing from every tongue, tribe, and nation.

The "Antichrist" is usually compared to the Beast of Revelation, but that is not correct. There is no good reason to say that the two are the same.

Agree. The people that do this are those that do not read Revelation as it should be read. Revelation is a picture book, not a puzzle book.

The Beast is a governmental figure, allegorically representing all of the earth's governmental powers. These governments fall WAY SHORT of perfection, thus their number is "666." (Perfection is number "7." 666 emphasizes the terrible imperfection of all governments by man.

Agree again.

Can anyone present a good argument concerning what I've said, stating succinctly why what I say is wrong?

Well, you're not completely wrong. And actually fairly close to being right...

One other thing I will say is, none of what we are talking about here is actually salvific... in other words, not essential to salvation... so there is really no reason for any of us to snipe at each other.

Grace and peace to all.

[PinSeeker]

A common tactic of Satan is to imitate or counterfeit the things of God in order to make himself appear to be like God.

A common claim by Christian Religion which tends more toward confusing than revealing.

"Did God actually say..." (Genesis 3:1)

Tricksie...

Right back atcha.



Grace and peace to you, William.

[William]

A common tactic of Satan is to imitate or counterfeit the things of God in order to make himself appear to be like God.

A common claim by Christian Religion which tends more toward confusing than revealing.

"Did God actually say..." (Genesis 3:1)

...which the LORD God had made...apparently placing all sorts of delightful things in the garden. Perhaps a case of if you want something done, tell them not to do it?

The Bible gives us such a delightful concoction of data that one can interpret through practically any filter of belief system.

Oh what fun we have...

[PinSeeker]

Oh what fun we have...

I'm glad you are having fun, William. And I appreciate this little "crusade" you are on, William, in this and it seems all other threads on this forum, but, surely, it's much fury signifying nothing. Alas, it is true that there is truly nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9). Yes, the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18). Grace and peace to you, my friend.

[William]

Oh what fun we have...

Alas, it is true that there is truly nothing new under the sun (Ecclesiastes 1:9). Yes, the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God (1 Corinthians 1:18). Grace and peace to you, my friend.

I'm glad you are having fun, William. And I appreciate this little "crusade" you are on, William, in this and it seems all other threads on this forum, but, surely, it's much fury signifying nothing.

I am neither 'perishing' or one to consider folly in the beliefs people have. But that is due to my unique position which veers away from judgmentalism and entertains greater things. That is where the fun is had Pinseeker, and you implying I am somehow errant and furious to boot, is more personal opinion than actual factual. Perhaps consider veering away from personal comments in a debate setting is the best path to take. Either that or just ignore my information as 'nothing' as most of your fellows do, having learned to hold their tongues in the face of that which they cannot dispute with their own world views without soiling their stuff...

Dormie I Am 'Tis All...

[Purple Knight]

Did the Serpent think it was doing good and that the god in the garden was being unfair?

This is really the biggest question of the lot, and the answer is almost certainly, "Of course." He didn't hate humanity. If he hated them and wanted them gone he'd have just killed them. He either thought humanity was bad and wanted to prove that to God (how could it be wrong to prove what is right?) or he thought God was bad and wanted to prove that to humanity.

Nobody is the antagonist of their own story. Other than being tempted, we all act according to what we think is right.

And just as God created Lucifer, the Antichrist will probably be created to think in his heart that what he does is good. I've even had delusions that it's me. It's obviously not. I'm evil, but I'm not that important.

Still, it could have been me, because like Lucifer, my conscience points the wrong way. Things that are obviously wrong to others seem permissible to me, and things that seem obviously wrong to me seem permissible to others.

I can still [effectively] choose to be good by ignoring my own malfunctioning conscience and looking to the conscience of others I know are righteous. And what will God say at the End? That I was supposed to be evil? That he needed me to do it? That he'll now damn me for being good because I went against his plan? Well then, he should have appeared to me and asked me to do X and Y and Z. I would have. But then, of course.... he'd be the one who was evil. And he can't have that, so when his special Plan needs someone evil, he implants them with a malfunctioning conscience. Oh, well, you had all the information. You chose to follow your evil conscience, so you're still liable for what you did. You thought it was right, but you were mistaken.

No. Screw that.

I choose to ignore my conscience and be good.

Now, what if the real Antichrist does this? Or what if nobody is willing to play that part? What if every... single... potential... Antichrist... does as I do?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #23]

I appreciate your post about this.

However, am I correct in thinking that you think that Satan will be permanently defeated at the time of Jesus' return at Armageddon? If so, what about what the scripture tells us in Revelation that after the Thousand Years Satan will be let loose from the "abyss" and many "like the sands of the sea" will follow him against God's faithful people? THEN Satan will be destroyed and his influence gone forever. (Revelation 20:7-9)

[William]

[Replying to Purple Knight in post #28]

Now, what if the real Antichrist does this? Or what if nobody is willing to play that part? What if every... single... potential... Antichrist... does as I do?

According to most Christians, until the Antichrist plays his part, Jesus won't return...so in that sense it would be a strategic advantage not to show ones self at all...call it a weakness in the plan which can be

But what then? Perhaps the whole story is to see if it might encourage human beings to clean up their own mess without putting that task onto the gods? Imagine all the billions of Christians etc actually building a system of Parity which everyone can enjoy equally...
Too hard to imagine?
Probably. So then who in the world is going to do so? Non Christians? Perhaps. But Christians won't be liking that since it would require changing the system of disparity which Christianity endorse as 'God ordained'...

Such is the human drama...and why a sense of humor is vital...

[JehovahsWitness]

How about those people, organizations, or groups that truly claim to represent Christ? How does one tell the difference between the two?

Jesus indicated that it isn't merely the claim but the actions that validate his true disciples. Biblically, true Christianity is identifiable by its actions.



JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

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