Inspired By YHWH

[William]

The interesting thing about biblical stories that are inspired by concepts -in this case the concept of a Creator with many names, of which I choose YHWH for the purpose of this thread - is that they [the biblical stories] in turn, inspire one to understand the story in terms that the story itself inspires.

Do you agree with this? If not, what are your arguments against this being the case.

[2timothy316]

In this it would seem that what is being argued is that one should be inspired only by the stories about YHWH.

Not about but FROM.

From, about and to who it may concern etc et al.

Not if we are talking about 'inspired by God'. There is only inspired FROM or BY God. As in the information comes from him. Not what what comes from our own thoughts.

One can be 'inspired by the stories that we hear, [assumingly under the influence of God's Holy Spirit.]

If one is assuming they are under the influence of God's Spirit then they are not. Also the source of the prophecy must be considered. Did it come by vision, angel or dream?

One can be inspired to do or say whatever they want, that doesn't make it prophecy, part of canon, from God or even true.

Is not being inspired by Father YHWH the same as being "Under the influence" of the Holy Mother Spirit? I don't see why not.

Again, what people call inspired by what they read is not the same as being inspired by God's Spirit and if a person isn't sure then they are not under 'inspiration by God' then they are not. Read the book of Ezekiel to know what a person under inspiration sounds like, what they felt like and what visions they saw.

Well I am not one to go off following known false prophets, who predict events [such as the return of Jesus] while claiming to be inspired by God while 'under the influence of The Holy Spirit' only to have such predictions fail.
But I am one who thinks that those who do follow such false prophets do not deserve any attention, re any advice they might offer in relation to my relationship with YHWH.
By the sounds of it, you would agree with me on that, yes?

One must identify what a real dollar bill is before identifying what a counterfeit bill looks like. Same goes for a false prophet. What a true prophecy is must be understood before calling something false. That means one must start at the basics and evidence and not what one feels is right or feels what was inspired is right.

[William]

The interesting thing about biblical stories that are inspired by concepts -in this case the concept of a Creator with many names, of which I choose YHWH for the purpose of this thread - is that they [the biblical stories] in turn, inspire one to understand the story in terms that the story itself inspires.

Do you agree with this? If not, what are your arguments against this being the case.

Is this the same as a self fulfilling prophecy?
Or like how a word shouldn't be used to define itself?
That the bible and its stories are said to be true or accurate or correct because the bible's stories claim that to be the case?

It is more the case of accepting the evidence as it has been presented, without being concerned as to whether such evidence is 'true' or 'false'...one simply takes what is said about the main Character [YHWH] and from that evidence, see if one can get a broader idea as to the nature of said character.

For example, YHWH is able to enter into his creation and interact with different characters within the creation. YHWH can 'suit up' in any 'skin' he so chooses to use for whatever particular purpose he wants to do so.

We know this, from what the bible stories tell us...

Ah OK. Thanks for the clarification.
IMO, we can't truly understand a god if this god is perfect, immortal, all knowing and all powerful. Best we could glimpse is a passing ideal of said deity-thing-creature-god. Our brains aren't capable of absorbing such a thing.

Well we have to realize that such concepts as to "what is a god really?" are not off limits to human understanding.

I myself do not know 'what is perfect' in any particular way.
In that, if I am to understand what Jesus meant when he said "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." the detective can see that this statement has information preceding the advice which would possible lend itself to giving clues as to what Jesus meant by that.

If I simple took this one particular item of evidence, [the verse above] I could say to myself that Jesus is saying to the individual "whatever you think is perfect in relation to YHWH, then be that."

So if you think that YHWH as a god should be perfect, this is your call, but if you also think that being a perfect god one has to be, immortal, all knowing and all powerful then - in relation to Jesus advice - you need to be all those things too.

Looking at the bible, there seems to be a personality difference, of sorts, between the NT god and the OT god,

As a detective I would agree with this assessment.

which further clouds any potential of understanding its nature other than, it's all powerful, all knowing, at al.

Not really. What it does show is that YHWH appears to have learned from his mistakes and rectified these, etc et al. This in turn shows a god who obviously isn't "all powerful, all knowing" and thus we can remove that assumption from our investigations.

What I do is place it to one side. It may be a case of relativity. YHWH might still be all powerful and all knowing in relation to his creation...so this may have something specifically to do with the perspective of YHWH when he is observing his creation from the outside...in relation to the perspective of human beings within said creation

That said, one can believe in (or not) anything they want, no matter what is or isn't available to them. Once that belief is founded in their own biasness, then they can 'understand' the nature of this being. Though, I'd submit this nature of the being is really their own nature, manifested in a more agreeable form.

Or it may be that the opposite is occurring.

That human understanding is evolving toward a place where it understands YHWH for who YHWH actually is, by removing the layers of cloth humans have dressed him up in [over the centuries] - perhaps even in order to safely have interaction with him...

So yes, it is not an easy task to undertake, examining the evidence as presented and remaining aware that the little information we have, has to be handled with the utmost of care and attention in order to get the most accurate portrayal of YHWH possible, in relation to that information.

But I would sure rather be doing this than joining in arguing about "what it means to be born again" as Christians are currently occupied with in this forum... [You MUST be born again]

[William]

In this it would seem that what is being argued is that one should be inspired only by the stories about YHWH.

Not about but FROM.

From, about and to who it may concern etc et al.

Not if we are talking about 'inspired by God'. There is only inspired FROM or BY God. As in the information comes from him. Not what what comes from our own thoughts.

Assuming you are not saying that YHWH does not use our thoughts to inspire us - or more so - places his thoughts into our thought stream - I can only reply that when said thoughts are written down and shared, then others can ascertain for themselves whether they are ''God-breathed' or not...but in that I would certainly caution to take care with that, as one can so easily accuse another of things which the other is not actually guilty of...so if indeed my thoughts are inspired by The Holy Ghost, and someone claims they are 'from Satan" [using the best alternative explanation as an example] then that someone claiming such might be very close to - if not exactly blaspheming The Holy Ghost, and to do so is unforgivable.

Is not being inspired by Father YHWH the same as being "Under the influence" of the Holy Mother Spirit? I don't see why not.

Again, what people call inspired by what they read is not the same as being inspired by God's Spirit and if a person isn't sure then they are not under 'inspiration by God' then they are not. Read the book of Ezekiel to know what a person under inspiration sounds like, what they felt like and what visions they saw.

I am happy to say that being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work is not different than being led by The Holy Ghost.

Well I am not one to go off following known false prophets, who predict events [such as the return of Jesus] while claiming to be inspired by God while 'under the influence of The Holy Spirit' only to have such predictions fail.
But I am one who thinks that those who do follow such false prophets do not deserve any attention, re any advice they might offer in relation to my relationship with YHWH.
By the sounds of it, you would agree with me on that, yes?

One must identify what a real dollar bill is before identifying what a counterfeit bill looks like. Same goes for a false prophet. What a true prophecy is must be understood before calling something false. That means one must start at the basics and evidence and not what one feels is right or feels what was inspired is right.

You are a Jehovah's witness, are you not? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

[2timothy316]

In this it would seem that what is being argued is that one should be inspired only by the stories about YHWH.

Not about but FROM.

From, about and to who it may concern etc et al.

Not if we are talking about 'inspired by God'. There is only inspired FROM or BY God. As in the information comes from him. Not what what comes from our own thoughts.

Assuming you are not saying that YHWH does not use our thoughts to inspire us - or more so - places his thoughts into our thought stream -

What evidence is there of that?

Is not being inspired by Father YHWH the same as being "Under the influence" of the Holy Mother Spirit? I don't see why not.

Again, what people call inspired by what they read is not the same as being inspired by God's Spirit and if a person isn't sure then they are not under 'inspiration by God' then they are not. Read the book of Ezekiel to know what a person under inspiration sounds like, what they felt like and what visions they saw.

I am happy to say that being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work is not different than being led by The Holy Ghost.

That is quite a claim. Is there a Bible example of a person 'being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work' that you can point me to so that I might compare you and them?

Well I am not one to go off following known false prophets, who predict events [such as the return of Jesus] while claiming to be inspired by God while 'under the influence of The Holy Spirit' only to have such predictions fail.
But I am one who thinks that those who do follow such false prophets do not deserve any attention, re any advice they might offer in relation to my relationship with YHWH.
By the sounds of it, you would agree with me on that, yes?

One must identify what a real dollar bill is before identifying what a counterfeit bill looks like. Same goes for a false prophet. What a true prophecy is must be understood before calling something false. That means one must start at the basics and evidence and not what one feels is right or feels what was inspired is right.

You are a Jehovah's witness, are you not? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

Do I have an identifying mark that makes you think so?

[nobspeople]

[Replying to William in post #13]

Well we have to realize that such concepts as to "what is a god really?" are not off limits to human understanding.

The WHAT is fine. The WHO and understanding the actual being is something altogether IMO.

I could say to myself that Jesus is saying to the individual "whatever you think is perfect in relation to YHWH, then be that."

I think we can 'get into trouble' when trying to place a conceptual understanding to what could very well be an absolute. We see this many times when Christians argue about when something in the bible should be symbolic or absolute.

Not really (in reference in being confused at the NT and OT gods).

Yes really, at least for some people. Which is another reason what the bible is just so terrible: there's too many ways for it to be open to interpretation IMO.

YHWH appears to have learned from his mistakes and rectified these, etc et al.

Some would say God is perfect and not capable of mistakes. If he does make mistakes, then, to me (and many others) he's worthy of the god or deity title. Mistakes aside, I don't recall ever seeing any rectification between the OT and NT god. I see, if it is the same god, a bi-polar god at the very least.
But again, interpretation.

That human understanding is evolving toward a place where it understands YHWH for who YHWH actually is, by removing the layers of cloth humans have dressed him up in [over the centuries] - perhaps even in order to safely have interaction with him...

Being that the modern, Christian god is made up, in the likeness of mankind (IMO), and every changing based on what his disciples say across history (even the little things matter), I don't think that's any more possible that us understanding our own selves.
But IF God is real, he's beyond our ability to understand fully as I don't see how anything that infinite being made understandable by finite minds that we have here on earth.

it is not an easy task to undertake,

I say it's quite easy because the target (god) is always moving based on humanity's description of it. Normally, a moving target is hard to hit. But, because God is a human creation, we can anticipate its 'movement' and meet it there.
In other words, it's quite easy to do something when the only measurement we have to it is ourselves.

IMO of course, like always.

[William]

Assuming you are not saying that YHWH does not use our thoughts to inspire us - or more so - places his thoughts into our thought stream

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #15]

What evidence is there of that?

In the bible you mean? Are you saying there is no record of YHWH ever communicating with individuals through their thoughts alone?

If so, I will have to check to see if that is the case...indeed, I best check anyway...as it might be an assumption I have made in that regard.

I am happy to say that being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work is not different than being led by The Holy Ghost.

That is quite a claim. Is there a Bible example of a person 'being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work' that you can point me to so that I might compare you and them?

I would be very surprised if none were to be found therein...

For now though, I can say that YHWH inspired Paul-who-was-Saul to advise [me in this case] to examine all things and stay true to those things which are proved true and correct. In that, detective work is indeed required, wouldn't you agree?

You are a Jehovah's witness, are you not? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

Do I have an identifying mark that makes you think so?

Since I can neither see your right hand or forehead, I cannot answer that question. But you can, if you want to. So are you or are you not a Jehovah's Witness?

[2timothy316]

Assuming you are not saying that YHWH does not use our thoughts to inspire us - or more so - places his thoughts into our thought stream

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #15]

What evidence is there of that?

In the bible you mean? Do you have another source that I can check for evidence?

I am happy to say that being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work is not different than being led by The Holy Ghost.

That is quite a claim. Is there a Bible example of a person 'being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work' that you can point me to so that I might compare you and them?

I would be very surprised if none were to be found therein...

For now though, I can say that YHWH inspired Paul-who-was-Saul to advise [me in this case] to examine all things and stay true to those things which are proved true and correct. In that, detective work is indeed required, wouldn't you agree?

Does that prove an example of a person 'being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work'? Not to me.

You are a Jehovah's witness, are you not? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

Do I have an identifying mark that makes you think so?

Since I can neither see your right hand or forehead, I cannot answer that question. But you can, if you want to. So are you or are you not a Jehovah's Witness?

Why do you ask? You're the Spirit Inspired detective here right? If you would please, run me through your deductive reasoning as to what makes you think I am a JW or not?

[William]

[Replying to William in post #13]

Well we have to realize that such concepts as to "what is a god really?" are not off limits to human understanding.

The WHAT is fine. The WHO and understanding the actual being is something altogether IMO.

In my opinion, the one can lead to the other.

I could say to myself that Jesus is saying to the individual "whatever you think is perfect in relation to YHWH, then be that."

I think we can 'get into trouble' when trying to place a conceptual understanding to what could very well be an absolute.

This assumes that human beings actually know what "absolute perfect" is. From accounts of Jesus interactions with humans, I think it extremely safe to say that he did not think humans knew this.

We see this many times when Christians argue about when something in the bible should be symbolic or absolute.

Yes, but we also see that Christians who do this are unwilling to do the detective work to0, so one cancels out the other.

Not really. What it does show is that YHWH appears to have learned from his mistakes and rectified these, etc et al. This in turn shows a god who obviously isn't "all powerful, all knowing" and thus we can remove that assumption from our investigations.

What I do is place it to one side. It may be a case of relativity. YHWH might still be all powerful and all knowing in relation to his creation...so this may have something specifically to do with the perspective of YHWH when he is observing his creation from the outside...in relation to the perspective of human beings within said creation

Yes really, at least for some people. Which is another reason what the bible is just so terrible: there's too many ways for it to be open to interpretation IMO.

Stick to the facts of what is being presented. If there is something in the facts which require interpretation first, then place these to one side until such as time as a place for these is found.

YHWH appears to have learned from his mistakes and rectified these, etc et al.

Some would say God is perfect and not capable of mistakes. If he does make mistakes, then, to me (and many others) he's worthy of the god or deity title. Mistakes aside, I don't recall ever seeing any rectification between the OT and NT god. I see, if it is the same god, a bi-polar god at the very least.
But again, interpretation.

Yes indeed.

That is why I take the 'perspectives" approach. YHWH made a mistake [from his perspective] and rectified that. In relation to being a God, he can do this, and does so.
One can argue that a God should not be able to make mistakes, but the argument might be from purely human ignorance and assumption.

That human understanding is evolving toward a place where it understands YHWH for who YHWH actually is, by removing the layers of cloth humans have dressed him up in [over the centuries] - perhaps even in order to safely have interaction with him...

Being that the modern, Christian god is made up, in the likeness of mankind (IMO), and every changing based on what his disciples say across history (even the little things matter), I don't think that's any more possible that us understanding our own selves.
But IF God is real, he's beyond our ability to understand fully as I don't see how anything that infinite being made understandable by finite minds that we have here on earth.

Understandably this is simply your personal position and subsequent beliefs about the subject. My own are different. At least we have a book of stories which we can examine, but if you already have the fixed idea that a "God" must be "such and such and so and so" and these tell you that YHWH therefore is NOT a God, you may be fudging the results. Even that you may have got such ideas from Christians. THEY might also be fudging the results.

That is "why" the detective work is necessary.

it is not an easy task to undertake,

I say it's quite easy because the target (god) is always moving based on humanity's description of it. Normally, a moving target is hard to hit. But, because God is a human creation, we can anticipate its 'movement' and meet it there.
In other words, it's quite easy to do something when the only measurement we have to it is ourselves.

IMO of course, like always.

Detective work involves far more than a simply handwave...

[William]

Assuming you are not saying that YHWH does not use our thoughts to inspire us - or more so - places his thoughts into our thought stream

[Replying to 2timothy316 in post #15]

What evidence is there of that?

In the bible you mean? Are you saying there is no record of YHWH ever communicating with individuals through their thoughts alone?

If so, I will have to check to see if that is the case...indeed, I best check anyway...as it might be an assumption I have made in that regard.

Do you have another source that I can check for evidence?

I am focusing on bible stories only as a means of getting an overall picture of YHWH.

I am happy to say that being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work is not different than being led by The Holy Ghost.

That is quite a claim. Is there a Bible example of a person 'being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work' that you can point me to so that I might compare you and them?

I would be very surprised if none were to be found therein...

For now though, I can say that YHWH inspired Paul-who-was-Saul to advise [me in this case] to examine all things and stay true to those things which are proved true and correct. In that, detective work is indeed required, wouldn't you agree?

Does that prove an example of a person 'being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work'? Not to me.

Well IF the claim is that the bible was inspired by YHWH, and Paul-who-was-Saul and his advice to examine all things and stay true to those things which are proved true and correct THEN I think that qualifies as evidence that 'being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work' is indeed involved in that process. Unless you are saying Paul-who-was-Saul was not inspired by YHWH to write that...you are not claiming that, are you?

You are a Jehovah's witness, are you not? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

Do I have an identifying mark that makes you think so?

Since I can neither see your right hand or forehead, I cannot answer that question. But you can, if you want to. So are you or are you not a Jehovah's Witness?

Why do you ask?

Because if you were a Jehovah's Witness, then I would not have to consider your arguments as legitimate, since Jehovah's Witnesses followed a false prophet - someone who made false predictions as to when Jesus was going to return.

You're the Spirit Inspired detective here right? Run me through your deductive reasoning as to what makes you think I am a JW?

Rather I will point you to what I said which was that I may have you confused with someone else. My detective work involves me having to ask you to provide an answer so that I might then ascertain how much credence I should give to your argument regarding following those who supply false information while proclaiming they are getting their information from YHWH - or in the case of JW's - from Jehovah...

...it is a reasonable question for me to be asking you. It is therefore reasonable that you should answer the question rather than dance about doing the malarkey.

[2timothy316]

Well IF the claim is that the bible was inspired by YHWH, and Paul-who-was-Saul and his advice to examine all things and stay true to those things which are proved true and correct THEN I think that qualifies as evidence that 'being inspired by YHWH to do the detective work' is indeed involved in that process. Unless you are saying Paul-who-was-Saul was not inspired by YHWH to write that...you are not claiming that, are you?

So we are to do comparisons. Examine what things exactly? What has been proven true and correct?

You are a Jehovah's witness, are you not? Or am I confusing you with someone else?

Do I have an identifying mark that makes you think so?

Since I can neither see your right hand or forehead, I cannot answer that question. But you can, if you want to. So are you or are you not a Jehovah's Witness?

Why do you ask?

Because if you were a Jehovah's Witness, then I would not have to consider your arguments as legitimate, since Jehovah's Witnesses followed a false prophet - someone who made false predictions as to when Jesus was going to return.

You're the Spirit Inspired detective here right? Run me through your deductive reasoning as to what makes you think I am a JW?

Rather I will point you to what I said which was that I may have you confused with someone else. My detective work involves me having to ask you to provide an answer so that I might then ascertain how much credence I should give to your argument regarding following those who supply false information while proclaiming they are getting their information from YHWH - or in the case of JW's - from Jehovah...

...it is a reasonable question for me to be asking you. It is therefore reasonable that you should answer the question rather than dance about doing the malarkey.

So you're attempting to prejudge me. I see. Do you do this to everyone? Find out what religion they are and then judge how much 'credence' you will give them? Is this your detective work in action? If I say I am nothing, will you then prejudge that too? Sounds like its in my best interest that you never know what I am so that I can get as much 'credence' as I can or at least avoid an attack on my beliefs which really are not for debate.