Eternal Hell: Yes or No

[nobspeople]

When I joined this site, I (erroneously) assumed a Christian (by popular definition) believes in Eternal Hell damnation no matter the denomination or lack there of.
That doesn't seem to be the case with some of you (some believe it to be a temporary punishment, or not at all, etc). So I ask:

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

If you do, who goes there?
Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

If you don't believe, why not?

What brings you to that conclusion?

[William]

Social media has been going crazy with reports that Pope Francis has denied the existence of hell. Even some mainstream media have picked up the story supposedly based on an interview by an Italian journalist.

Anyone who has followed the pope's talks and sermons would immediately know that something does not smell right here. The pope has in fact spoken of hell in the past in a way that clearly indicates that he believes in it.

In 2014, the pope mentioned hell when calling the Mafia to conversion. In 2016, he said that people who do not open their hearts to Christ will end up condemning themselves to hell. The same year, he referred to hell as "the truth" and described it as being "far away from the Lord for eternity."

The most extensive papal explanation of hell came in response to a 2015 question from a female scout who asked, "If God forgives everyone, why does hell exist?" Francis acknowledged that this was a "good and difficult question."

The pope spoke of a very proud angel who was envious of God, reports Catholic News Service.

"He wanted God's place," said Francis. "And God wanted to forgive him, but he said, 'I don't need your forgiveness. I am good enough!'"

"This is hell," explained the pope. "It is telling God, 'You take care of yourself because I'll take care of myself.' They don't send you to hell, you go there because you choose to be there. Hell is wanting to be distant from God because I do not want God's love. This is hell."

Most contemporary theologians would agree with the pope. Hell is not about fire and brimstone; it is about our freedom to say no to God, our freedom to reject love and choose loneliness. If you believe in freedom, you have to believe in hell.

When we close our hearts and tell the world to go to hell, we are in fact choosing hell for ourselves. Hell is the absence of love, companionship, communion. We are not sent there; we choose it.

God did not create hell; we did.

[Link]

[2ndpillar2]

When I joined this site, I (erroneously) assumed a Christian (by popular definition) believes in Eternal Hell damnation no matter the denomination or lack there of.
That doesn't seem to be the case with some of you (some believe it to be a temporary punishment, or not at all, etc). So I ask:

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

If you do, who goes there?
Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

If you don't believe, why not?

What brings you to that conclusion?

Hell, Sheol, the grave, the first stop after death is like taxes, pretty much unavoidable. Now the lake of fire, comes after everyone is raised from the grave/hell, and progresses into a judgment for the good and the bad.(Revelation 20). While the fires of the lake of fire is ongoing, the fire itself causes a second death, which like the first death, is pretty much lights out, except for the devil, the beast, and the false prophet (Revelation 20:10).

[William]

When I joined this site, I (erroneously) assumed a Christian (by popular definition) believes in Eternal Hell damnation no matter the denomination or lack there of.
That doesn't seem to be the case with some of you (some believe it to be a temporary punishment, or not at all, etc). So I ask:

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

If you do, who goes there?
Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

If you don't believe, why not?

What brings you to that conclusion?

Hell, Sheol, the grave, the first stop after death is like taxes, pretty much unavoidable. Now the lake of fire, comes after everyone is raised from the grave/hell, and progresses into a judgment for the good and the bad.(Revelation 20). While the fires of the lake of fire is ongoing, the fire itself causes a second death, which like the first death, is pretty much lights out, except for the devil, the beast, and the false prophet (Revelation 20:10).

The devil, the beast, and the false prophet must be made of something eternal if that fire can't consume them....

[nobspeople]

When I joined this site, I (erroneously) assumed a Christian (by popular definition) believes in Eternal Hell damnation no matter the denomination or lack there of.
That doesn't seem to be the case with some of you (some believe it to be a temporary punishment, or not at all, etc). So I ask:

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

If you do, who goes there?
Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

If you don't believe, why not?

What brings you to that conclusion?

Hell, Sheol, the grave, the first stop after death is like taxes, pretty much unavoidable. Now the lake of fire, comes after everyone is raised from the grave/hell, and progresses into a judgment for the good and the bad.(Revelation 20). While the fires of the lake of fire is ongoing, the fire itself causes a second death, which like the first death, is pretty much lights out, except for the devil, the beast, and the false prophet (Revelation 20:10).

Thanks for your response.
What brings you to these conclusions you listed (apologies if I missed it)?

[John Bauer]

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

This is actually a rather vague question, which could make the answers prone to being misunderstood. In light of that, permit me to answer it this way: (1) I don't believe the doctrine of eternal conscious torment in fire and brimstone. However, (2) I do believe the doctrine of eternal punishment, that the damned will be utterly destroyed and forever—that is, eternal punishment, not eternal punishing. (As someone once said, "Eternal punishment is the opposite of eternal life, not another form of eternal life.")

(As you can see, I could answer "yes" to your question, but also "no.")

If you do, who goes there?

All those who do not belong to Christ.

Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

There is no third category. One either does or does not belong to Christ. Those who do not belong to Christ face eternal punishment.

Do young babies or the mentally challenged belong to Christ? I have neither the knowledge nor the means to answer that, sorry. All I can share is that I hope they do, whilst acknowledging that this is pure sentimentality.

If you don't believe, why not?

I reject the doctrine of eternal conscious torment because (1) it is contrary to the eschaton where God will "be all in all" (Dimmesdale expressed the matter well in his post #47), (2) it presupposes that sinners are immortal and (3) it is based off a couple of passages that are apocalyptic and full of symbolic language, which forces a person to explain away the hundreds of passages that are didactic and straight-forward which teach that the damned will be utterly destroyed forever. That is precisely backwards; the few unclear passages are to be interpreted in light of the many clear passages, the apocalyptic in light of the didactic.

What brings you to that conclusion?

See above.

[tam]

[Replying to John Bauer in post #56]

Peace to you John Bauer, and well said!

There is no third category. One either does or does not belong to Christ. Those who do not belong to Christ face eternal punishment.

Do young babies or the mentally challenged belong to Christ? I have neither the knowledge nor the means to answer that, sorry. All I can share is that I hope they do, whilst acknowledging that this is pure sentimentality.

Just to comment on this part of your post and to your hope,

Among those who are invited into the Kingdom (and who will receive eternal life) are non-Chrisitans who have done (good* see below) to even a least one of Christ's brothers, because whatever one does for a least one of His brothers, one does for Him (even if unknowingly):


*
“Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

“Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

“The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’


*


As well, no one at the second resurrection (the resurrection of the dead, Rev 20) is Christian. Yet some (or many) at this time will have their names written in the Lamb's book of life as well (despite their not being Christian). So if by 'belonging to Christ' you mean 'those who have their names written in the Lamb's book of life', then yes... just with the understanding that more than Christians have their names written in the Lamb's book of life.



Of course God may have mercy upon whomever He chooses, and as Christ said, "Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy."




Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[John Bauer]

[Replying to tam in post #57]

You said, with reference to Matthew 25:34-40, that among those who receive eternal life are "non-Christians who have done good." Of course, the passage itself doesn't say they were non-Christians, so how did you come to that conclusion? The king is speaking to those on his right, which are the sheep (v. 33). Are you suggesting that people who reject Christ are his sheep?

_____

Note 1: For visitors reading this, the full context of the passage being referenced is Matthew 25:31-46.

Note 2: The relevance to the OP is found in the identity of those who go to hell. I said, "All those who do not belong to Christ." As I understand it, in this passage that would be the goats (vv. 41-46), whereas the sheep are welcomed into their inheritance, the kingdom prepared for them from the foundation of the world.

[tam]

Peace to you,

[Replying to tam in post #57]

You said, with reference to Matthew 25:34-40, that among those who receive eternal life are "non-Christians who have done good."

"... to even a least one of Christ's brothers", thereby doing good to Christ Himself (albeit unknowingly). Yes.

Of course, the passage itself doesn't say they were non-Christians, so how did you come to that conclusion?

My Lord (Christ Jaheshua) showed me this.

But from the passage:

1 - the sheep did not know that they had done anything for Christ. They had to ask.

2 - Christians will have already been caught up to Christ at His coming to meet Him in the sky.

For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. 1 Thess 4:16, 17

That is not what happens with the sheep in the parable of the sheep and the goats. Instead, the sheep (and the goats) are the people of the nations on the earth who are gathered before Christ after He has returned, and separate by Him.

3 - The sheep in this parable are not invited into the Kingdom on the basis of their faith in Christ (but rather upon the basis of how they unknowingly treated Christ, via, how they treated a least one of His brothers).

The king is speaking to those on his right, which are the sheep (v. 33). Are you suggesting that people who reject Christ are his sheep?

Not every non-Christian has actually rejected Christ. Some may not know Him (though He may know them by what they DO), some may simply be rejecting a false image of Christ (and of God).


And there are people of the nations who do BY NATURE the requirements of the law (which law is love).

Paul bears witness to this (Romans 2:13-16)

For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through [Jesus] Christ, as my gospel declares.



Some of this is touched upon in my second post on this thread:

viewtopic.php?p=1028756#p1028756

I was able to share more scriptural support on a post from a few years back here (from the thread, "A Good God would not send a decent atheist to hell"):

viewtopic.php?p=731804#p731804



Peace again to you,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[2ndpillar2]

When I joined this site, I (erroneously) assumed a Christian (by popular definition) believes in Eternal Hell damnation no matter the denomination or lack there of.
That doesn't seem to be the case with some of you (some believe it to be a temporary punishment, or not at all, etc). So I ask:

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

If you do, who goes there?
Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

If you don't believe, why not?

What brings you to that conclusion?

Hell, Sheol, the grave, the first stop after death is like taxes, pretty much unavoidable. Now the lake of fire, comes after everyone is raised from the grave/hell, and progresses into a judgment for the good and the bad.(Revelation 20). While the fires of the lake of fire is ongoing, the fire itself causes a second death, which like the first death, is pretty much lights out, except for the devil, the beast, and the false prophet (Revelation 20:10).

The devil, the beast, and the false prophet must be made of something eternal if that fire can't consume them....

The devil is spirit, who resides in the hearts of men by means of his demons, and their spirits are eternal. The "beast" and the "false prophet" ate of the tree of life, and are eternal in nature, and their demon spirits have influenced today's leaders (Revelation 16:13).

[William]

When I joined this site, I (erroneously) assumed a Christian (by popular definition) believes in Eternal Hell damnation no matter the denomination or lack there of.
That doesn't seem to be the case with some of you (some believe it to be a temporary punishment, or not at all, etc). So I ask:

Do you believe in eternal hell (or eternal damnation if you like) or not?

If you do, who goes there?
Are there exceptions (mentally challenged people, newborn babies for examples)?

If you don't believe, why not?

What brings you to that conclusion?

Hell, Sheol, the grave, the first stop after death is like taxes, pretty much unavoidable. Now the lake of fire, comes after everyone is raised from the grave/hell, and progresses into a judgment for the good and the bad.(Revelation 20). While the fires of the lake of fire is ongoing, the fire itself causes a second death, which like the first death, is pretty much lights out, except for the devil, the beast, and the false prophet (Revelation 20:10).

The devil, the beast, and the false prophet must be made of something eternal if that fire can't consume them....

The devil is spirit,

What an interesting coincidence as I have heard also that God is Spirit.

who resides in the hearts of men by means of his demons, and their spirits are eternal.

More interesting coincidence...

The "beast" and the "false prophet" ate of the tree of life, and are eternal in nature, and their demon spirits have influenced today's leaders (Revelation 16:13).

Frogs and dragons - Conspiracy theories about the "Reptilians" ... there is no mention of them eating of the tree of life in that verse...where did you get that information from?
Also, in order to have eternal life they will need to have access to the tree of life - there is no mention of the tree life being with them in the eternal flame...