Do Souls Prexist?

[Benson]

One or some of the following must exist regarding the human soul:

1.) It comes into existence at the moment of meiotic inception in the womb, or in a laboratory container.

2.) It comes from another dimension or place to be inserted into the newly formed human zygote, or possibly at the first breath when birth occurs.

3.) It is a small spark of God Himself which He puts into humans when they arrive at a sentient state of accountability.

4.) Human souls exist only in humans which are chosen by God according to the integrity of their DNA.

5.) God ordains some humans shall be possessed by a prexistent nonhuman evil spirit.

Perhaps this Forum has those who claim to have knowledge of God's Omnipotence, Providence, and Love and will thereby confidently pontificate. Or, perhaps someone will arise with patronizing verbation to hide their lack of thought and information. The best answer will assuredly be germane and to the point without being dismissive or divergent.

A clue to an answer is that God "breathed into Adam" before Adam became a living soul, something not done with animals. Jesus also purposefully "breathed" upon His Disciples. As well, Mosaic Law specifies unborn children are persons to be protected. Strangely, Pagan worship sought and prioritized the sacrifice of infants, as if the infancy contained a certain aspect of being they utilized.

[myth-one.com]

Where did you get this explanation of the First and Second Resurrections? Is it JW?

Got that from The Bible.

[Miles]

Being fairly familiar with the Bible, I'm curious as to where you got all this somewhat strange information, because most of it is quite new to me. That, and some of your extra-biblical claims beg explanation.

And, I'm still wondering why god can't judge everyone from where their decomposed bodies lie instead of having to first resurrect them. It makes no sense to resurrect people only to turn around and cast them into the lake of fire and quickly suffer their second and everlasting death. Being omniscient, surely god knows where they're going to end up before all his resurrecting gets underway.

>>>> The "Strange Information" explained:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

All mankind are like the first man Adam in that all die. Likewise, every human who ever died shall be resurrected or made alive again. Jesus was resurrected first:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming." The Second Coming is described in Revelation chapter nineteen:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Revelation 19:11-13)

Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Him in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

At this point after the first resurrection, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as spiritual beings. They will then enjoy the millennium with Jesus:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

After the millennium, all dead nonbelievers are resurrected from their graves and face judgment:

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)

After the judgment of those resurrected in the second resurrection (nonbelievers), whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Be aware that absolutely none of those resurrected at the second resurrection had their names written in the book of life when resurrected! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection!

So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names.

What happened?

Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection. From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Recall that all dead and living Christians were born again as spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming. And there is no reason to believe that anyone will become a believer during the 1000 year millennium, as they have no preachers:

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)

All whose names were written in the Book of Life as believers were born again at the Second Coming. So the Book of life has been cleared. All inheritors have received their rewards. After the 1000 year Millennium, the second resurrection for mankind occurs:

Everyone raised in this second resurrection will face the great white throne judgment. Since all have sinned, all of them are headed for their second death.

The judgment will hold them responsible for their behavior as humans and some may see that God's plan for them was better than their way of life.

Satan is locked away during this time, the scriptures are unsealed, and these nonbelievers are explained the true good news of the scriptures.

Following this process, the Book of Life is checked again.

God created mankind with freedom of choice and set before them two choices -- everlasting life and everlasting death. He then recommended that we choose life -- so God is pro life:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deuteronomy 30:19)

Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection. From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States. Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time! At this time these people will hear the true message for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear.

Those times will be over!

Those who accept Jesus as their Savior during their judgment have their names written in the Book of Life.

That is why the book is checked again after their judgment.

==============================================

I live a few miles from the grave of five children murdered in their "innocent years" by their mother to send them to heaven and insure that they did not burn in hellfire eternally. She was taught that false theology by a Christian church.

At the time of the murders, Christian pastors around the country rushed to their pulpits to confirm that the murdered children were indeed with God in heaven -- thus providing positive feedback to the murderer.

Children who die in their innocent years are not now in heaven. They will make their decisions after being resurrected as mortals and reaching maturity following the Second Coming of Jesus.

The true gospel message that every individual chooses his or her personal fate regardless of their age at death must replace the false message that murdered children go immediately to heaven for eternity.

Miles,

Where did you get this explanation of the First and Second Resurrections? Is it JW?

Thanks.

This isn't my explanation, but that of myth-one.com.


.

[Miles]

Being fairly familiar with the Bible, I'm curious as to where you got all this somewhat strange information, because most of it is quite new to me. That, and some of your extra-biblical claims beg explanation.

And, I'm still wondering why god can't judge everyone from where their decomposed bodies lie instead of having to first resurrect them. It makes no sense to resurrect people only to turn around and cast them into the lake of fire and quickly suffer their second and everlasting death. Being omniscient, surely god knows where they're going to end up before all his resurrecting gets underway.

>>>> The "Strange Information" explained:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

All mankind are like the first man Adam in that all die. Likewise, every human who ever died shall be resurrected or made alive again. Jesus was resurrected first:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)

The resurrection which we presently await is the one at which "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected. "They that are Christ's" refers to Christians. This resurrection for all Christians occurs at the Second Coming of Jesus to the earth, or "at his coming." The Second Coming is described in Revelation chapter nineteen:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Revelation 19:11-13)

Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Him in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

At this point after the first resurrection, all Christians (dead or alive) have been born again as spiritual beings. They will then enjoy the millennium with Jesus:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

After the millennium, all dead nonbelievers are resurrected from their graves and face judgment:

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:11-15)

After the judgment of those resurrected in the second resurrection (nonbelievers), whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. Be aware that absolutely none of those resurrected at the second resurrection had their names written in the book of life when resurrected! Every single human, dead or alive, with their names written in the book of life (believers) were born again into everlasting spiritual life at the first resurrection!

So why are they checking the book again? Something obviously occurred since these nonbelievers were resurrected to cause the book of life to be modified. Otherwise, there would be no reason to check the book again for their names.

What happened?

Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection. From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Recall that all dead and living Christians were born again as spiritual bodied beings at the Second Coming. And there is no reason to believe that anyone will become a believer during the 1000 year millennium, as they have no preachers:

How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? (Romans 10:14)

All whose names were written in the Book of Life as believers were born again at the Second Coming. So the Book of life has been cleared. All inheritors have received their rewards. After the 1000 year Millennium, the second resurrection for mankind occurs:

Everyone raised in this second resurrection will face the great white throne judgment. Since all have sinned, all of them are headed for their second death.

The judgment will hold them responsible for their behavior as humans and some may see that God's plan for them was better than their way of life.

Satan is locked away during this time, the scriptures are unsealed, and these nonbelievers are explained the true good news of the scriptures.

Following this process, the Book of Life is checked again.

God created mankind with freedom of choice and set before them two choices -- everlasting life and everlasting death. He then recommended that we choose life -- so God is pro life:

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (Deuteronomy 30:19)

Nonbelievers resurrected to mortal life at the second resurrection will make their choice after understanding what the two possible choices are. If they were not given a choice on earth prior to their death, they will be given their choice after their resurrection as mortal humans in the second resurrection. From the New International Version of The Holy Bible:

For this is the reason the gospel was preached even to those who are now dead, so that they might be judged according to men in regard to the body, but live according to God in regard to the spirit. (I Peter 4:5)

Their choice will be based on being preached the true gospel message for the first time. It will be preached at this time in the entire world, before the end of the age of man can occur:

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. (Matthew 24:14)

Billions or trillions of people have died never having the opportunity to accept Jesus as their Savior. These nonbelievers are raised again as mortals during the second resurrection and given that opportunity! The majority of all people who have ever lived have never, ever, heard the true message of the Holy Scriptures, even in the United States. Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time! At this time these people will hear the true message for the first time from angels, including Christians born again as spirits in the first resurrection, with Satan and all of his myths and lies totally defeated. Most people have never been given a choice based on Biblical truth! Their choice was based on myths and fear.

Those times will be over!

Those who accept Jesus as their Savior during their judgment have their names written in the Book of Life.

That is why the book is checked again after their judgment.

==============================================

I live a few miles from the grave of five children murdered in their "innocent years" by their mother to send them to heaven and insure that they did not burn in hellfire eternally. She was taught that false theology by a Christian church.

At the time of the murders, Christian pastors around the country rushed to their pulpits to confirm that the murdered children were indeed with God in heaven -- thus providing positive feedback to the murderer.

Children who die in their innocent years are not now in heaven. They will make their decisions after being resurrected as mortals and reaching maturity following the Second Coming of Jesus.

The true gospel message that every individual chooses his or her personal fate regardless of their age at death must replace the false message that murdered children go immediately to heaven for eternity.

Sorry, but when you answer statements not made in your original post it's impossible to make any sense of your reply. At least not to the extent that I care to ferret out some kind of correlation.

Have a good day.


.

[myth-one.com]

All Christians (dead and alive) will be born again of the Spirit as spirits at the Second Coming. They will then spend the 1000 year Millennium with Jesus.

The rest of the dead (nonbelievers) will then be resurrected as humans and face judgment.

As one of Jehovahs Witnesses I would agree that there are two types of resurrections with two separate destinies.

My only point of contention is that Jesus indicated HE had "sheep" in both categories (the latter to be gathered future of his earthly ministry).

The "other sheep" (category 2) cannot be non-Christian believers ignorant of his Messiahship, since such ones cannot accurately be described as having followed him*. Even the faithful men and women of old never followed Christ since they died long before he was revealed on earth as mankind's saviour.

* According to John 10 its knowing or recognising the authority of Christs voice and obediently following him that identifies them has his sheep


COULD THE OTHER SHEEP BE NON-JEWISH BELIEVERS IN CHRIST?

Some suggest Jesus was referring to individuals that turned to Christ who were of an ethnicity other than Jewish (of Hebrew descent) . This cannot be so however since Jesus indicated the second group would still be an identifiable separate group after they join his flock.

Paul explained that all ethical, social, linguistic, geographical divisions ceased to have any spiritual significance once anointed born again Christians joined the fold. So if the "other sheep" were to join one flock but remain {to quote Jesus} "not of this fold" {end quote} that distinction could not be along ethnic lines.

CONCLUSION While all anointed Christians have the hope of being part of the first resurrection, Jesus words indicated that some dedicated faithful followers of Christ would be of another destiny.

I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. (John 10:11)

Jesus gave His life for all of mankind (whosoever):

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

So "the sheep" are all of Mankind.

I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine. (John 10:14)

So "my sheep" are believers who know and believe in Jesus.

That would make sheep not of this fold, those who do not know Jesus.

And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. (John 10:16)

So the entire flock of sheep is all of mankind.

My sheep refers to the fold of sheep which know Jesus.

The other fold refers to those who do not yet know Jesus.

[Overcomer]

Benson wrote:

Do Women dedicate their attention to intuitive and emotional things? Yes? No? Can you say?

I would not say that we "dedicate our attention" to intuitive and emotional things. I would say that we have intuition and emotions and are aware of them and listen to them when important, but that does not preclude us from focusing on intellectual and rational endeavours as you suggest and you do us a great disservice in suggesting such.

Are you telling me that men have no intuition whatsoever and no emotions that influence them, that they rely entirely on logic and intellect? Yes? No? Can you say?

[Benson]

I am laughing at how you reflexively admit to using Men as a standard for your thoughts, by comparing their intuition to that of women. Lol.

Tell us, are you ever able to turn off your feelings and intuition ... ? Maybe for 2 - seconds ... ? Can you answer?

[myth-one.com]

I am laughing at how you reflexively admit to using Men as a standard for your thoughts, by comparing their intuition to that of women. Lol.

Tell us, are you ever able to turn off your feelings and intuition ... ? Maybe for 2 - seconds ... ? Can you answer?

Tell us?

I've posted in this thread. Just want to put it on record that "us" does not include "me."

[Benson]

Are Wimmin slaves to their intuition and feelings? Yes? No? What do the facts of their behavior and their buying habits indicate?