You MUST be born again

[Checkpoint]

You MUST be born again".

That is a very emphatic statement, made to Nicodemus, a Jewish teacher.

Here now is the whole passage, from John 3:

1 Now there was a Pharisee, a man named Nicodemus who was a member of the Jewish ruling council.
2 He came to Jesus at night and said, “Rabbi, we know that you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the signs you are doing if God were not with him.”

3 Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless they are born again.”

4 “How can someone be born when they are old?” Nicodemus asked. “Surely they cannot enter a second time into their mother’s womb to be born!”

5 Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit.
6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit b gives birth to spirit.

7 You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.
8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”

9 “How can this be?” Nicodemus asked.

10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
11 Very truly I tell you, we speak of what we know, and we testify to what we have seen, but still you people do not accept our testimony.
12 I have spoken to you of earthly things and you do not believe; how then will you believe if I speak of heavenly things?

An interesting exchange, and an interesting subject.

How do you understand what Jesus taught in these verses?

What do you say being born again, or being born of the Spirit, actually is?

Is this for every follower of Jesus, or only for some believers?

Does it take place in this life, or in the one to come, or both?

Why is it so important?

Could it be similar to, or the result of, repentance and/or saving faith?

How would you explain verse 8?

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #41]

Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time!

Who was it who "very successfully sealed the scriptures"? When did that happen, myth-one?

But somehow not sealed from you, of course!

How about Checkpoint?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #40]

One resurrection, and one Judgment, "the Judgment"; Hebrews 9:27, not two or more.

Furthermore, the judgment and resurrection are brief events, not time periods. They are not an opportunity for any human to make or change a decision.

=================================================

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

There will be an order to the resurrections (plural). If there is only one resurrection, there would be no cause to order them or state who was resurrected when!

Jesus Christ was the first to be resurrected or made alive:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)

The group that will be resurrected next are all dead Christians, "they that are Christ's", which will be resurrected at the Second Coming, or "at His coming."

The Second Coming is described in Revelation chapter nineteen:

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. (Revelation 19:11-13)

The Word created everything and also was made flesh as the man Jesus Christ:

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us... (John 1:14)

The first resurrection for mankind is described only a few verses away from the description of the Second Coming:

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. (Revelation 20:4-5)

All dead Christians are resurrected at this first resurrection. Christians who are alive on the earth when Jesus returns will be born again as spirits and meet Him in the air:

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

These resurrected and changed Christians become children of God:

Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3)

That is, they are born at the resurrection. They were born once before in their existence, their physical birth. Since Christians are born a second time as a spiritual being at the resurrection, they are born again! It is an actual, real experience, not simply some emotional occurrence experienced during your physical life on earth. What does the Bible state we must become to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

Since these born again Christians are newly born children of God, they are sinless -- and face no judgment.

At this point after the first resurrection, all mankind who died as Christians along with Christians who were alive at the Second Coming have been born again as spiritual beings. They will now enjoy the millennium Sabbath with Jesus:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (Revelation 20:6)

The thousand-year millennium will be spent resting, rejoicing, and apparently new member training, since these new spirits will judge angels and others following the second resurrection:

Know ye not that we shall judge angels?... (I Corinthians 6:3)

Following the millennium, Satan is released from prison, he and his followers are defeated in battle, Satan is cast into hell where he is tormented for eternity:

The second resurrection then occurs for the "rest of the dead" -- which consists entirely of nonbelievers.

All resurrected in the second resurrection face judgment.

Following judgment, those whose names are not written in the Book of Life are cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second and permanent second physical death:

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:15)

===========================================

The New Testament states that believers gain everlasting life, while nonbelievers perish:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

I previously stated what I believe happens to those resurrected in the second resurrection to face judgment.

Why do you believe happens to those resurrected nonbelievers?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #41]

Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time!

Who was it who "very successfully sealed the scriptures"? When did that happen, myth-one?

It was sealed by Satan in Genesis chapter three.

But somehow not sealed from you, of course!

It was sealed from me also -- for too many years!

How about Checkpoint?

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. (Isaiah 29:11-12)

I think everyone is included.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to Checkpoint in post #41]

Remember that the scriptures have been very successfully sealed until the end of time!

Who was it who "very successfully sealed the scriptures"? When did that happen, myth-one?

It was sealed by Satan in Genesis chapter three.

But somehow not sealed from you, of course!

It was sealed from me also -- for too many years!

How about Checkpoint?

And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned. (Isaiah 29:11-12)

I think everyone is included.

Yes, everyone is included in the results of Satan's trickery in Genesis 3.

But equally,, all are potentially included in God's answer in Genesis 3.

Genesis 3:15:

I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring a and hers;
he will crush b your head,
and you will strike his heel.”

Matthew 4:

12 When Jesus heard that John had been put in prison, he withdrew to Galilee.
13 Leaving Nazareth, he went and lived in Capernaum, which was by the lake in the area of Zebulun and Naphtali—
14 to fulfill what was said through the prophet Isaiah:

15 Land of Zebulun and land of Naphtali,
the Way of the Sea, beyond the Jordan,
Galilee of the Gentiles—

16 the people living in darkness
have seen a great light;
on those living in the land of the shadow of death
a light has dawned.”

17 From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.”

Matthew 13:

10 The disciples came to him and asked, “Why do you speak to the people in parables?”

11 He replied, “Because the knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
12 Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.

13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

“Though seeing, they do not see;
Though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

“ ‘You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.

15 For this people’s heart has become calloused;
they hardly hear with their ears,
and they have closed their eyes.

Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
hear with their ears,understand with their hearts
and turn, and I would heal them.’

16 But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
17 For truly I tell you, many prophets and righteous people longed to see what you see but did not see it, and to hear what you hear but did not hear it.

2 Corinthians 3:

12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold.

13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away.
14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away.

15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts.
16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #43]

The New Testament states that believers gain everlasting life, while nonbelievers perish:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

I previously stated what I believe happens to those resurrected in the second resurrection to face judgment.

Why do you believe happens to those resurrected nonbelievers?

I believe the Bible clearly says in various ways that unbelievers will be negatively judged the Second Death.

[tam]

Peace to you both,

Just in case this helps:

An unbeliever and a non-believer are not the same thing.

Some Jews who rejected Christ (whom they should have known and accepted) were called unbelievers, but they were not atheists or agnostics, or even members of other religions.


A non-believer is simply someone who does not believe, for whatever reason. Such ones are judged on the basis of their deeds. As the sheep in the sheep and the goats parable (for those who are alive on the earth when Christ returns). And also at the second resurrection (for non-Christians who have died, from the beginning).

A non-believer can indeed have the law (love) upon their hearts, so that they do the requirements of that law NATURALLY. And love covers over a multitude of sins (... We who are in Christ have His blood as our covering, the blood of the Lamb; but some who are not in Christ may have love as a kind of covering as well). Not to mention the fact that the merciful will be shown mercy; those who forgive will be forgiven; those who do not judge will not be judged; and everything Christ said that the sheep did unknowingly for Him, in the sheep and the goats parable, that they were then declared by Him to be righteous.


And of course God may have mercy upon whomever He chooses.




Peace again to you both,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #43]

Checkpoint wrote:
↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:49 am
[Replying to myth-one.com in post #40]

One resurrection, and one Judgment, "the Judgment"; Hebrews 9:27, not two or more.

Furthermore, the judgment and resurrection are brief events, not time periods. They are not an opportunity for any human to make or change a decision.

=================================================

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

There will be an order to the resurrections (plural). If there is only one resurrection, there would be no cause to order them or state who was resurrected when!

Jesus Christ was the first to be resurrected or made alive:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)

Paul is referring to believers only in 1 Corinthians 15. He does this by specifying ""they that are Christ's" and "in Christ shall all be made alive". He does not write anything in this context about the future of those not "in Christ" but still "in Adam"; unbelievers.

He is in no way saying there is more than one resurrection. "in order" means "in rank". So, he is putting Christ first, not only in time, but also in pre-eminence, just as he does in Colossians 1:15-18.

Paul here is equating the resurrection to a harvest, which has firstfruits and the rest when ripened.

As for the harvest concept, this is well used by Jesus at least twice. See Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43; Revelation 14:14-20.

Each includes both believers and unsaved in one resurrection to one judgment. These two belong together. One event at his coming that Jesus pinpoints as happening "on the last day" involving both believers and unbelievers. John 6:39; 12:48.

Believers and unbelievers, in one resurrection for one judgment, to eternal life or to the Second Death.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #43]

Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. (Matthew 18:3)

That is, they are born at the resurrection. They were born once before in their existence, their physical birth. Since Christians are born a second time as a spiritual being at the resurrection, they are born again!

It is an actual, real experience, not simply some emotional occurrence experienced during your physical life on earth.

What does the Bible state we must become to enter the Kingdom of Heaven?

The New Testament states that to enter the kingdom we must be converted, be born again, and become as little children. John 3:5; Matthew 18:3.

It also says except we repent, we will perish, and that it is not God's will that anyone perishes, but that all come to repentance. Luke 13:3,5; 2 Peter 3:9.

All of these are "an actual , real experience", "during your physical life on earth". None of them are "simply some emotional occurrence .

We do, in this life, enter the kingdom.

Colossians 1:

13 For He has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son He loves.

[PinSeeker]

[Replying to myth-one.com in post #43]

Checkpoint wrote:
↑Mon Dec 07, 2020 2:49 am
[Replying to myth-one.com in post #40]

One resurrection, and one Judgment, "the Judgment"; Hebrews 9:27, not two or more.

Furthermore, the judgment and resurrection are brief events, not time periods. They are not an opportunity for any human to make or change a decision.

=================================================

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the first fruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (I Corinthians 15:22-23)

There will be an order to the resurrections (plural). If there is only one resurrection, there would be no cause to order them or state who was resurrected when!

Jesus Christ was the first to be resurrected or made alive:

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the first fruits of them that slept. (I Corinthians 15:20)

Paul is referring to believers only in 1 Corinthians 15. He does this by specifying ""they that are Christ's" and "in Christ shall all be made alive". He does not write anything in this context about the future of those not "in Christ" but still "in Adam"; unbelievers.

He is in no way saying there is more than one resurrection. "in order" means "in rank". So, he is putting Christ first, not only in time, but also in pre-eminence, just as he does in Colossians 1:15-18.

Paul here is equating the resurrection to a harvest, which has firstfruits and the rest when ripened.

As for the harvest concept, this is well used by Jesus at least twice. See Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43; Revelation 14:14-20.

Each includes both believers and unsaved in one resurrection to one judgment. These two belong together. One event at his coming that Jesus pinpoints as happening "on the last day" involving both believers and unbelievers. John 6:39; 12:48.

Believers and unbelievers, in one resurrection for one judgment, to eternal life or to the Second Death.

The only things I would say to this are the following two things (and I'm pretty sure you would agree):

• Just to clarify, there is only one physical resurrection. Just like Christ Jesus. Like you say, though, and I agree, all will experience it, believer and unbeliever alike.

• There are, though, two resurrections -- a first and a second (final), just as there are two deaths. Regarding the two resurrections, the difference is that the first is spiritual and the second (final) physical, while conversely, regarding the two deaths, the first is physical and the second (final) is spiritual.

Other than that, though, regarding your post:



Grace and peace to all.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to PinSeeker in post #50]

There are, though, two resurrections -- a first and a second (final), just as there are two deaths. Regarding the two resurrections, the difference is that the first is spiritual and the second (final) physical, while conversely, regarding the two deaths, the first is physical and the second (final) is spiritual.

Not quite, Pinseeker.

Let's take a fresh look at each aspct of two resurrections and two deaths.

A good place to start is at or near the beginning. That is, Genesis 1-3, and then briefly summarize where that leads us to.

God created Adam as a physical being with the potential to become spiritually alive for eternity.

However, that first Adam made the wrong choice and, as a result, was in spiritual death, passing it on to all mankind.

So he was immediately in "spiritual death", which eventually resulted in physical death.

That has always been the way into spiritual death, which we call being "in Adam", who we also call "the first Adam".

But God has provided us the way out of spiritual death into spiritual life. That way out of spiritual death has been made available through another man, Jesus of Nazareth, the Son of God, the Christ.

If we become his followers, we are no longer "in Adam", in death, but "in Christ", who is also called "the second Adam". We are now, as it were, "in life". John 5:24-25.

That is, we are spiritually alive, inwardly experiencing "the first resurrection" in this present life. Water baptism illustrates, confirms, and celebrates this new reality; we have gone from spiritual death to spiritual life.

But we still have a brief physical life to live, and then we die physically.

But not forever. Only until Jesus returns to raise us back to the spiritual life that will last forever. Not to physical life in a physical body(though it may outwardly look like a physical one). Rather, as spiritual beings. 1 Corinthians 15:42-61.

Well then, what about those who are spiritually dead when they die physically?

They too are raised , but only to physical life, as was Lazarus.

They are dead spiritually, and will remain so. They are still "in Adam", without hope and without any future, and their physical life has already been used up.

They have nothing left and will become nothing but ashes.

Malachi 4:

1 “Surely the day is coming; it will burn like a furnace. All the arrogant and every evildoer will be stubble, and the day that is coming will set them on fire,” says the Lord Almighty. “Not a root or a branch will be left to them.

2 But for you who revere my name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its rays. And you will go out and frolic like well-fed calves.

3 Then you will trample on the wicked; they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day when I act,” says the Lord Almighty.

Grace and peace to you.