The Great Image of Daniel chapter 2

[onewithhim]

Daniel's chapter about the great image (chapter 2) is very significant within any discussion of the end times and when God's Kingdom comes (Matt.6:9,10). After perusing this chapter, and perhaps viewing this image on other websites, what is your understanding of the meaning of this image and its being hit by a rock from the mountain?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to Revelations won in post #3]

Thank you, RW, for your response. I gather that you feel that there is some other prophet in these latter days that fills Daniel's shoes? Would you explain that a bit more?

Also, you didn't say how YOU understand this prophecy. What does it mean?

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[onewithhim]

[Replying to Sojournerofthearth in post #6]

Thank you, Sojourner, for your response. I get the impression that you would agree with all the points that I would bring out about this image, but there might be a few differences. I don't know what you mean by another Babylon rises. Would you elaborate on that please?


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[bjs1]

The four parts of the statue represent four earthly kingdoms.

We are told directly that the golden head represents the Babylonian Empire under king Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 2:38).

The chest of silver represents the kingdom that arose “after you” (Dan 2:39), the “you” being Nebuchadnezzar. That was would be the Median-Persian Empire.

The belly of bronze represents the next empire, the Greek Empire established by Alexander the Great.

The legs of Iron represent the Roman Empire.

The feet of clay and iron represent how the Roman Empire was divided in two.

The Rock not cut by human hands represents a kingdom established by God that instead of people. That is the church, the Kingdom of God, which is a kingdom unlike the other kingdoms. It is a kingdom defined not by political power or by lines on a map, but by allegiance to our one Lord and God, Jesus Christ.

[JehovahsWitness]

The feet of clay and iron represent how the Roman Empire was divided in two.

Why do you say "divided in two"? The dream doesn't depict one foot of iron and one foot of clay but iron "mixed" with clay so it indicates not two seperate entities but still a single one compromised I some way.




JW




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[bjs1]

The feet of clay and iron represent how the Roman Empire was divided in two.

Why do you say "divided in two"? The dream doesn't depict one foot of iron and one foot of clay but iron "mixed" with clay so it indicates not two seperate entities but still a single one compromised I some way.

Indeed, by the time we get to the “rock not cut by human hands” the Roman Empire was still one organization, but divisions were starting to show. The weak was mixed with the strong. It would not be until the fourth century AD that the Empire split in two (the clay and the iron separated). The vision in Daniel stops with the creation of the Christ’s church in the first century. After that, we are only told that the church continued to grow. The political kingdom are no longer in focus.

[JehovahsWitness]

... The vision in Daniel stops with the creation of the Christ’s church in the first century. After that, we are only told that the church continued to grow. The political kingdom are no longer in focus.

So, correct me if I am misunderstanding, you believe

- the rock is the true Christian church
- the feet is a weakened Roman empire
- the the church struck (and destroyed) weakend Rome in the 4th century CE

• It seems to me the above is based on the premise that TRUE Christianity existed as an identifiable entity in the 4th century. Also that it not only dominated Rome but ultimately destoyed and replaced Rome. And presently exists to the exclusion of all rivals.

• There is also the point that in verse 35 we read that ALL the sections of the image (kingdoms) were pulverized by the stone. In other words, ts not the passage of time and the natural movement of political power that brings an end to The kingdoms, they are destroyed, never to exist again by an outside entity

• The rock does not "emerge" from the image it is completely apart and absolutely solid. At no point is the rock dominated by any part of the image. The first contact between the rock and the image (at the feet) is as a destuctive force. This destruction is not depicted as a gradual growth from within but sudden contact from above which results an instantaneous end of all the political entities mentioned

How could that be ? Can we say the church (ie Christians) achieved this?

JW

[onewithhim]

The four parts of the statue represent four earthly kingdoms.

We are told directly that the golden head represents the Babylonian Empire under king Nebuchadnezzar (Daniel 2:38).

The chest of silver represents the kingdom that arose “after you” (Dan 2:39), the “you” being Nebuchadnezzar. That was would be the Median-Persian Empire.

The belly of bronze represents the next empire, the Greek Empire established by Alexander the Great.

The legs of Iron represent the Roman Empire.

The feet of clay and iron represent how the Roman Empire was divided in two.

The Rock not cut by human hands represents a kingdom established by God that instead of people. That is the church, the Kingdom of God, which is a kingdom unlike the other kingdoms. It is a kingdom defined not by political power or by lines on a map, but by allegiance to our one Lord and God, Jesus Christ.

Very good, BJs1, but for two things, in my humble estimation. Could you elaborate on the feet of clay and iron and just how the Roman empire was divided? Secondly, allegiance to Christ's Kingdom is necessary, but you went a bit too far in referring to Jesus as "God." Anyway, do you agree that the Kingdom is an actual government that rules over the Earth?

.

[Checkpoint]

Daniel's chapter about the great image (chapter 2) is very significant within any discussion of the end times and when God's Kingdom comes (Matt.6:9,10). After perusing this chapter, and perhaps viewing this image on other websites, what is your understanding of the meaning of this image and its being hit by a rock from the mountain?

Relevant Scripture from Daniel 2:

26 The king asked Daniel (also called Belteshazzar), “Are you able to tell me what I saw in my dream and interpret it?”

27 Daniel replied, “No wise man, enchanter, magician or diviner, can explain to the king the mystery he has asked about,
28 but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries. He has shown King Nebuchadnezzar what will happen in days to come.

The dream:

Your dream and the visions that passed through your mind as you were lying in bed are these:

29 As Your Majesty was lying there, your mind turned to things to come, and the revealer of mysteries showed you what is going to happen.

30 As for me, this mystery has been revealed to me, not because I have greater wisdom than anyone else alive, but so that Your Majesty may know the interpretation and that you may understand what went through your mind.

31 Your Majesty looked, and there before you stood a large statue—an enormous, dazzling statue, awesome in appearance.
32 The head of the statue was made of pure gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze,
33 its legs of iron, its feet partly of iron and partly of baked clay.

34 While you were watching, a stone(rock) was cut out, but not by human hands. It struck the statue on its feet of iron and clay and smashed them.
35 Then the iron, the clay, the bronze, the silver and the gold, were all broken to pieces and became like chaff on a threshing floor in the summer. The wind swept them away without leaving a trace. But the stone(rock) that had struck the statue became a huge mountain and filled the whole earth.

The interpretation:

36 That was the dream, and now we will interpret it to the king.

37 Your Majesty, you are the king of kings. The God of heaven has given you dominion and power and might and glory;
38 in your hands He has placed all mankind and the beasts of the field and the birds in the sky. Wherever they live, He has made you ruler over them all. You are that head of gold.

39 After you, another kingdom will arise, inferior to yours. Next, a third kingdom, one of bronze, will rule over the whole earth.

40 Finally, there will be a fourth kingdom...

44 In the time of those kings, the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed, nor will it be left to another people. It will crush all those kingdoms and bring them to an end, but it will itself endure forever.

45 This is the meaning of the vision of the stone(rock) cut out of a mountain, but not by human hands—a stone(rock) that broke the iron, the bronze, the clay, the silver and the gold to pieces.

The great God has shown the king what will take place in the future. The dream is true and its interpretation is trustworthy.

1). The stone(rock):

Without any doubt, this has to be Jesus of Nazareth. He is the Anointed One sent by God to further His kingdom purposes, including dealing a fatal blow to His enemies.

"The stone" is prominent in Bible prophecies that speak of him.

For example, see how Peter applies some of them:

1 Peter 2:

4 As you come to him, the living Stone—rejected by humans but chosen by God and precious to him—
5 you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house a to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

6 For in Scripture it says:

“See, I lay a stone in Zion,
a chosen and precious cornerstone,
and the one who trusts in him
will never be put to shame.” (Isaiah 28:16)

7 Now to you who believe, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe,
“The stone the builders rejected
has become the cornerstone,” (Psalm 118:22)

8 and,

“A stone that causes people to stumble,
and a rock that makes them fall.” (Isaiah 8:14)

They stumble because they disobey the message—which is also what they were destined for.

Jesus would have included such passages, as he talked with his disciples after his resurrection. See Luke 24:25-27, 32.

[JehovahsWitness]

1). The stone(rock):

Without any doubt, this has to be Jesus of Nazareth ....

So, correct me if misunderstood but that means you conclude that...

The destruction of the image represents Jesus condemnation of the Pharisees
The fulfillment of the image happened in the first century

I have some questions ...

The image represents what/who?
The mountain is what/who?
The feet of stone of said image what/who?

[bjs1]

Very good, BJs1, but for two things, in my humble estimation. Could you elaborate on the feet of clay and iron and just how the Roman empire was divided?

I fear this requires a greater invest of time then I currently have. You can find ample resources on the history of the Roman Empire if you are interested. Just recognize that this is the kind of thing that requires an entire book, not just a web site.

Secondly, allegiance to Christ's Kingdom is necessary, but you went a bit too far in referring to Jesus as "God."

I quoted the Apostle Thomas as recorded by the inspired scriptures (John 20:28). My meaning was the same as his.

Anyway, do you agree that the Kingdom is an actual government that rules over the Earth?

It is a different kind of government. It is a “kingdom not of this world.” There are billions of people who have pledged their allegiance first to “our great God and Savior Jesus Christ.” They accept his rule in their lives and give him authority over earthly kingdoms. What distinguishes this Kingdom from earthly governments is that its seat of power is not found on earth but in heaven.