Does the book of Obadiah describe America?

[TruthSeeker916]

Hello all. So ive read the chapter in Obadiah, the only chapter in the book. And to me it kind of sounds like it's describing America. But God calls it Esau (Edom). Here let me post this scripture.

Obadiah 1:1-6 (KJV) "The vision of Obadiah. Thus saith the Lord GOD concerning Edom; We have heard a rumour from the LORD, and an ambassador is sent among the heathen, Arise ye, and let us rise up against her in battle.

Behold, I have made thee small among the heathen: (gentiles) thou art greatly despised.

The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground?

Though thou exalt thyself as the eagle, and though thou set thy nest among the stars, thence will I bring thee down, saith the LORD.

If thieves came to thee, if robbers by night, (how art thou cut off!) would they not have stolen till they had enough? if the grapegatherers came to thee, would they not leave some grapes?

How are the things of Esau searched out! how are his hidden things sought up!

Ok so reading that the first thing popped to mind was this sounds like America. He says this man is very proud, but the gentiles despise him (non israelite nations)

He says this man dwells in the clefts of the rock. I interpreted this to mean it is a highly protected nation. His habitation is high meaning he has great power in the earth and has much pride as a result saying no one can bring us down.

He then says he exalts his self as the eagle. That is THE AMERICAN LOGO. The Bald Eagle.

He then says he set his Nest among the Stars. Was it not America that established NASA space system and literally lives in outer space? With satalites and ect?

This is mind blowing. God says he will bring them down though. I mean at the end of the day no kingdom but Gods shall reign forever. Do we really think america wont fall? Do we really think christ will co rule the new kingdom on earth with the american government?

When you examin the wicked history of the nation? Its hard not to believe and see why God would have a judgment eye set on it. With history of stealing and slavery and alot of evil over centuries. All the clues point to america. He says if robbers steal wouldnt they leave at least some grapes ? Meaning they take what they need and get out. But american history reveals they take and take and take and do not stop. They take from other nations around the world and oppress them to their ways. And say you cant trade with us unless were in agreement which usually always benefits america more.

I dont know who else this could be. I believe God doesnt deal with coincidences neither. If it sounds like something it more likely is. Gods not the author of confusion. So what do you guys think about the book of Obadiah?

[PinSeeker]

Ok Im going to put this whole thing to bed.

Yes, I would encourage you to do that. But I would strongly discourage you from sleeping in that bed.

Paul in Romans 9 is referring to israelites who became GENTILES.

Absolutely not. Israelites were not and never will be Gentiles. However, since Jesus came, there is no longer any division between the two groups -- or distinction of one group from the other -- as they are one in Christ Jesus (if they are indeed in Christ). So Gentile believers (as opposed to Gentile unbelievers -- so not "all Gentiles," as you erroneously attribute to me) have been grafted in and are numbered among the true descendants and part of God's Israel. The same is true of Israelites/ethnic Jews; not all are of Israel, but only believers. Together, these are the descendants of Israel, the ones for whom God is their God. This is exactly what Paul says in Romans 11. So, they are -- we are -- God's people. The sheep of His pasture.

I interpret that scripture to be a prophecy of the so called "jewish" people today in israel since 1948.

Yes, from your very first post here, I was well aware that is your interpretation. This is the error of dispensational believers. But still, believers -- fellow Christians and brothers in Christ -- they are.

As I said before, Truthseeker, keep... seeking. Grace and peace to you.

[koko]

There are a number of biblical segments which seem to describe the USA. Years ago, the Armstrongs in their controversial teachings claimed that the Bible was directed almost exclusively at the USA and UK. Such dubious teachings, of course, were all debunked and their church (the World Wide Church of God) largely bankrupted and disincorporated as a consequence.

Still, one cannot help believe that the USA has been the subject of biblical warnings because of its sins. To me no part of the Bible is more evident in this regard than the Book of Amos:


https://www.biblestudytools.com/amos/


Here's the key: The dominant theme is clearly stated in 5:24, which calls for social justice as the indispensable expression of true piety.


Amos condemns all who make themselves powerful or rich at the expense of others. Those who had acquired two splendid houses (3:15), expensive furniture and richly laden tables by cheating, perverting justice and crushing the poor would lose everything they had.

This because the wicked rich people's Ruthless oppression of the poor (2:6-7a), The oppressive system will perish (2:13-16), Perversion of religious life (4:4-5), Indictment of injustices (5:7-13), Complacent Pride (6:1-7),, and A Sworn Judgment on the Proud and Unjust Nation (6:8-14).


Those who oppress the poor are told PREPARE TO MEET THY GOD (4:12).

Your palaces will be spoiled (3:11) ~ such as the World Trade Center (?).

You will be struck with pestilence (4:10).

Your sons and daughters will fall by the sword (7:17) ~ foreign wars.

Your cities shall be 'waste cities' (9:14).



Why do we see all these things happening to the USA today? Because of its injustices to the poor. This is a matter brought up again and again all throughout the book. Despite these warnings, many deluded people believe the rich should get richer and the hell with the poor. They continue to ignore the Bible's teaching that justice must first exist so that order can prevail as per Isaiah 59:8. The USA is in such terrible chaos because of its pro elitist politics and its ruthless explitation of the poor. Change all that and the wars, the pestilence, the down trodden cities, and all troubles will be ended. Just read your Bible and, more importantly, PRACTICE what it teaches. Treat the poor well and the USA will be back on its feet again.

[Elijah John]

No I don't think so.

As a rule we (Jehovahs Witnesses) have stopped looking for types and antitypes except where Gods word specifically indicates there is one.

We still hold that the anglo-american dual world power is the 7th head of the sea beast in Revelation.

Where does God's word specifically indicate that the "anglo-american dual world power is the 7th head of the sea beast in Revelation".

Isn't that an unwarranted interpretation as well?

[JehovahsWitness]

Where does God's word specifically indicate that the "anglo-american dual world power is the 7th head of the sea beast in Revelation".

Isn't that an unwarranted interpretation as well?

Jehovah's Witnesses don't limit ourselves to what the bible specifically states, we apply critical thinking skills to come to biblically sound interpretational conclusions.

Isn't that an unwarranted interpretation as well?

No it is not.





JW


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[woodtick]

I.

[PinSeeker]

I suppose it's possible the USA is mentioned somewhere in the bible, but Obadiah 1 deals with the Edomites who fought side by side with the Jews against Rome in 66-70 A.D. and were destroyed by Rome, never to be heard of as a people again. The predictions of Obadiah 1:10 and 1:18 were proven true.

Today, the Palestinians claim they are descendants of Esau/Edomites, and Arafat claimed his lineage went back to Esau, but most people believe neither.

All people are either of Jacob (or will be) or of Esau. It's not about mere ethnicity, but whether one is spiritually redeemed -- and therefore of God's Israel, His Elect -- or not. This is God's purpose of election, as proclaimed by Paul in Romans 1 through Romans 11 (especially Romans 9, 10, and 11).

So, while Obadiah's prophecy (and Amos's) had immediate ramifications for the Israelites of old, its real impact is far more wide-ranging and eternal. Ultimately, it is not about any one particular physical nation, but about the worldly "state"/"city"/"nation."

Grace and peace.

[woodtick]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #24]

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #24]

Are the seven heads that your pic shows those of Revelation 13, 17, or both?

The sequence of heads (Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, etc ...) is the same although the beasts are different (the "scarlet beast" of Rev 17 being an "image" or a replica of the sea beast of Rev 13 ...




NOTE All posts I write represent my personal faith based beliefs as one of Jehovah's Witnesses



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GLOSSARY OF TERMS [END TIMES]

[woodtick]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #28]

of sorts.

[JehovahsWitness]

In Revelation 17 - John is taken into the desert to witness the judgment of the great harlot ...the desert of Saudi Arabia.

QUESTION: Can we take the fact that John was taken to "the desert" (Douay-Rheims Bible) imply Babylon the Great is associated with dry arid regions of Arabia?

1. Most bibles translate Rev 17:3 as "wilderness" ie a deserted solitary (but not necessarily sandy hot or dry region)

2. The Bible already associates Babylon the Great with " the wilderness of the sea"¤ (compare Isaiah 21:1, 9)

3. Revelation associates Babylon with waters not sandy arid areas (compare Revelation 17:1)

¤ Hebrew YAM Strongs 3220 the Hebrew here can {quote} "sometimes a large river, or an artifical basin"





NOTES:

The word desert which we associate with a sandy hot arid region actually comes from the Latin 'desertum' which literally means 'thing abandoned' (thus we speak about a man "deserting" his wife).

Greek : eremos Strings #2048 "of uncertain affinity; lonesome, i.e. (by implication) waste (usually as a noun, cwra - chora 5561 being implied):--desert*, desolate, solitary, wilderness". Source : http://www.htmlbible.com/sacrednamebibl ... .htm#S2048
https://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicon ... remos.html

BY THE RIVERS OF BABYLON Ancient Babylon did indeed "sit on many waters" Herodotus described Babylon’s reliance on the rivers: ‘The whole Babylonian territory is cut up into channels, and the largest is navigable for ships and runs from the Euphrates to another river, namely the Tigris.’