intelligent christians?

[cristian_gavrilescu]

when you think that you are smart, poor people are pariah for you, you are a noble

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:

43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.

44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?

45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.

46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. (Matthew 25:34-46)

for me the right behavior is to think that you are a servant of the Lord,
what do you think?

[PinSeeker]

...you are calling God evil, not me.

LOL! No, in effect, you are. By labeling God a "dictator," you are, in effect, saying God is evil. I understand that's not your intention, but that's what's happening.

Yes, you are setting 'love' in opposition to 'dictator'. That's just your rule. Not God's.

It's not anybody's "rule," but rather understanding of simple concepts. My goodness.

every government of man is evil.

Every form of government can be misused and evil committed, but only in a dictatorship (of the examples you used, the others being democracy and representative republic) is it endemic to the thing itself.

Your use of (1 John 4:19) is flawed. You say love is an action resulting in emotion. That is not true.

LOL!!! In your opinion. Okay, man. Okay. Wow.

Of course God does everything for His own pleasure. That is what I am saying. And that doesn't make Him evil. It makes Him God.

Yeah, good. But that doesn't make Him a "dictator."

God's way or the highway is exactly what God does.

That's a very simple way of looking at it, but okay. God also works all things together for the good of those called according to His purpose, and gives grace to all. Dictators do not give grace in any way, much less the kind of grace that God gives to all of His creation.

The point is not why God sends most to the Lake of Fire, the point is that He does. He is a God of love and sends most to the Lake of Fire. Correct or not?

Well, I asked a different question ("Why does God send many to the Lake of Fire?") to make a point based on your answer. But you chose not to answer that, which is not surprising. I'm not saying I think you don't know, but based on your question to me here, it surely seems you do not. Let me ask this: That God sends many ("most" may be correct, but we don't really know) to the Lake of Fire (and it would also be interesting to know what you think this Lake of Fire is, although that is a different -- but related, really -- discussion) is true, so is that an act of love or not, in your opinion?

Our reigning with God does not replace God's rule as sole Authority.

Sure. I never intimated anything differently. But you're trying to say that God the Father and God the Son are "dictators," and the point to be understood here is that if they were -- in any sense of the word -- nobody would reign with Him in any capacity.

God's will is always done. Our will is brought in harmony with His will.

Exactly.

Dictator.

LOL!!! Nope. But yeah, a good thing it will be..

Yes, I am Dispensational. That doesn't change the Messianic verse I gave you out of the Bible. Through much vengeance and violence the Kingdom will be brought in.

Yeah, nothig changes any verse of God's Word. It endures forever, as Isaiah and Peter say. And I agree that there is great opposition to it. But that's beside the point. Dispensational understanding of the end times (and the whole of Scripture) is much in error and very misleading. There could be a lot more said here, but the battle is spiritual, not literal.

Grace and peace to you.

[Miles]

Then you are calling God evil, not me.

A few quick questions and the implications (I) you raise. Considering that evil is defined as:

.........e·vil
........./ˈēvəl/
.........noun: evil
.............profound immorality and wickedness, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.

Do you feel it's good to go around creating evil? I ask because the Bible tells us that evil comes from god.

.........Isaiah 45:7
.........7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

God does elevate His interests above all others. He does that because His interests are best for us.

(I) So you feel that owning other human beings, practicing slavery, which the god of Abraham condones, is best for us? Do you think slaves think it is?

(I) And in as much as evil is god's creation, I assume you're thankful for all the immorality and wickedness in the world. In your prayers of thanks do you remember to include your appreciation?

Of course God does everything for His own pleasure. That is what I am saying.

(I) I wasn't aware that god got pleasure out of sending wild beasts to rob parents of their children, (Leviticus 26:22), or that he got a kick out of rape (Deuteronomy 20:13-14) and killing infants (1 Samuel 15:3).

God's way or the highway is exactly what God does.

(I) And why he deserves our adoration, love, and thanks for the evil he brings into our lives.

And that is not evil as that is best.

(I) Of course, because evilness doesn't depend on how the game is played, but who's playing.

.........You moving your rook is evil.
.........God moving your rook is not evil.


Now please don't think I buy any of this, but it's what's implied (I) in what you've said. My suggestion is that you rethink what you're about to post before hitting the "Submit" button. But then again, maybe you meant exactly what you've said, and agree with everything I've said.

[Quantrill]

LOL! No, in effect, you are. By labeling God a "dictator," you are, in effect, saying God is evil. I understand that's not your intention, but that's what's happening.


It's not anybody's "rule," but rather understanding of simple concepts. My goodness.


Every form of government can be misused and evil committed, but only in a dictatorship (of the examples you used, the others being democracy and representative republic) is it endemic to the thing itself.


LOL!!! In your opinion. Okay, man. Okay. Wow.


Yeah, good. But that doesn't make Him a "dictator."


That's a very simple way of looking at it, but okay. God also works all things together for the good of those called according to His purpose, and gives grace to all. Dictators do not give grace in any way, much less the kind of grace that God gives to all of His creation.


Well, I asked a different question ("Why does God send many to the Lake of Fire?") to make a point based on your answer. But you chose not to answer that, which is not surprising. I'm not saying I think you don't know, but based on your question to me here, it surely seems you do not. Let me ask this: That God sends many ("most" may be correct, but we don't really know) to the Lake of Fire (and it would also be interesting to know what you think this Lake of Fire is, although that is a different -- but related, really -- discussion) is true, so is that an act of love or not, in your opinion?


Sure. I never intimated anything differently. But you're trying to say that God the Father and God the Son are "dictators," and the point to be understood here is that if they were -- in any sense of the word -- nobody would reign with Him in any capacity.


God's will is always done. Our will is brought in harmony with His will.
Exactly.


LOL!!! Nope. But yeah, a good thing it will be..


Yeah, nothig changes any verse of God's Word. It endures forever, as Isaiah and Peter say. And I agree that there is great opposition to it. But that's beside the point. Dispensational understanding of the end times (and the whole of Scripture) is much in error and very misleading. There could be a lot more said here, but the battle is spiritual, not literal.

Grace and peace to you.

If that is not my intent, then I am not calling God evil. And I have not.

As I said, it is your rule. Not God's. Call it your understanding or call it your rule, it's all the same. It is yours, not God's.

Every form of government can and is misused and contain much evil. What form of government will God use? Answer: Dictatorship. He is calling all the shots. Right?

Yes, concerning (1 John 4:19) it is you that have it backwards. wow

Of course it makes God a dictator. God always has His way. Correct?

I didn't answer your question because it does nothing to determine if one is a political dictator. God sending many to the lake of fire is God's love directed toward those who are His. Those being sent to the lake of fire are not recipients of God's love, but of Gods righteousness and judgement.

All believers who reign with God, execute the will of God. Even worldly dictators have a political cabinet. But they don't do their own will. They do the dictators will. You have the Fathers will. The Son, Christ, always does the Fathers will...correct? Just as we will do the will of Christ and the Father.

Spiritual is not opposed to 'literal'. Spiritual is literal also. Spiritual is opposed to physical. The spiritual world is literal. Yes, I disagree with you concerning Dispensationalism.

Quantrill

[Quantrill]

@Miles Concerning your post #22

Evil in the Bible can be the spiritual force opposed to God or it can be disastrous and terrible things that occur to man. God can very well be behind some disastrous and terrible things that happen to man. But God is not an evil force. Just as satan, who is evil personified in an angel, can do very good things. But just because he does those good things doesn't make them good. They are evil.

Concerning the evil and wickedness in the world, yes there is much. Concerning God's role in it, yes, none of it would have ever occurred if it was not part of His plan. God could have killed satan right off the bat. God could have stopped satan from entering the garden and tempting man. But He didn't. Why? It was his plan. Men and angels are involved in this work that God is doing. And it will go as God has planned it to. That is why we have the book of (Revelation). We know how it will end.

Yes God instituted slavery. And as an institution there were rules. God never said we had to own slaves. But slavery is the natural condition of all men. Of course to Americans slavery is a greater sin than crucifying Christ. John Brown is the 'christ' to America. But Americans are on the road to negro worship. So, yes, I agree with God. Slavery is not evil. It is but the natural condition of man. And man is always trying to be free and independent, sound familiar, from God. God is for dependence. Not independence. You are a slave either to God or satan. It doesn't matter if you acknowledge it or not. You are.

How much 'pleasure' is involved in certain acts of God is immaterial. The point was God does things in accordance to his pleasure, not others. And, that is always good.

If God brings evil into my life, as a believer I still trust Him, as I know it is for my good.

Evil and Good both depend on Who is playing. You moving your rock is not evil if evil is not behind it.

I don't need to rethink before I hit the submit button.

Quantrill

[PinSeeker]

If that is not my intent, then I am not calling God evil. And I have not.

Certainly, you would agree, I'm sure, that one can do something without meaning to. That's exactly what you have done and are doing still.

concerning (1 John 4:19) it is you that have it backwards.

Your take on 1 John 4:19 (and other Bible passages, I feel sure, is... interesting. I'll just leave it at that.

God always has His way. Correct?

Yes, God "has His way," but that does not make Him a dictator. It makes Him sovereign over His creation, certainly, but does not make Him a dictator.

God sending many to the lake of fire is God's love directed toward those who are His. Those being sent to the lake of fire are not recipients of God's love, which includes God's righteousness and judgement.

Hm. This is a mixed bag. So:

God cannot do anything that is unloving. God IS love; therefore, everything He does is an expression of that perfect love. The truth of these two statements then necessarily means that God's sending many to the symbolic "lake of fire," or "outer darkness," as we see elsewhere, are also the recipients of God's love. The fact is, each person ultimately gets exactly what he/she wants. In the case of unbelievers, even though God has made His salvation known to them -- a loving act (Romans 1) -- what they desire above all else is to be totally separated from God, and God ultimately gives them exactly what they want -- also a loving act.

As it concerns us as human beings, we certainly would say that unbelievers, from a human perspective, are on the undesirable side of God's righteousness and justice and judgment, but that exactly what they get, and by your own admission, these things are included in God's love. Plus, as Romans 1 also says, they are without excuse, meaning they have no one to blame but themselves for their fate. This is the case, whether you want to accept it or not, my friend.

The Son, Christ, always does the Fathers will...correct?

Well, yes, so is the Father a dictator over Christ? No, of course not. You make my point. Thank you.

Spiritual is not opposed to 'literal'. Spiritual is literal also.

I wholeheartedly agree. But Revelation is literature of the apocalyptic genre, Quantrill, and John's sharing of his dream. Therefore, it is not a future-only, wooden reality (as dispensational Christians see it) but a symbolic and figurative picture of the reality we see around us now and will continue to see up to the return of Christ.

Grace and peace to you, Quantrill.

[Quantrill]

Certainly, you would agree, I'm sure, that one can do something without meaning to. That's exactly what you have done and are doing still.

Your take on 1 John 4:19 (and other Bible passages, I feel sure, is... interesting. I'll just leave it at that.

Yes, God "has His way," but that does not make Him a dictator. It makes Him sovereign over His creation, certainly, but does not make Him a dictator.

Hm. This is a mixed bag. So:

God cannot do anything that is unloving. God IS love; therefore, everything He does is an expression of that perfect love. The truth of these two statements then necessarily means that God's sending many to the symbolic "lake of fire," or "outer darkness," as we see elsewhere, are also the recipients of God's love. The fact is, each person ultimately gets exactly what he/she wants. In the case of unbelievers, even though God has made His salvation known to them -- a loving act (Romans 1) -- what they desire above all else is to be totally separated from God, and God ultimately gives them exactly what they want -- also a loving act.

As it concerns us as human beings, we certainly would say that unbelievers, from a human perspective, are on the undesirable side of God's righteousness and justice and judgment, but that exactly what they get, and by your own admission, these things are included in God's love. Plus, as Romans 1 also says, they are without excuse, meaning they have no one to blame but themselves for their fate. This is the case, whether you want to accept it or not, my friend.

Well, yes, so is the Father a dictator over Christ? No, of course not. You make my point. Thank you.

I wholeheartedly agree. But Revelation is literature of the apocalyptic genre, Quantrill, and John's sharing of his dream. Therefore, it is not a future-only, wooden reality (as dispensational Christians see it) but a symbolic and figurative picture of the reality we see around us now and will continue to see up to the return of Christ.

Grace and peace to you, Quantrill.

If I am not calling God evil, yet you believe I am, the error is on you not me. Your error is based upon your misunderstanding of the political rule of 'dictator'. You define it only based upon what you have seen in human experience. As such it is 'evil'. But tell me, what political rule, be it democracy, socialism, monarchy, etc. etc., is not defined as evil as seen played out in human experience?

Yes, God is sovereign. Thus He is dictatorial.

You speak as though God is only love. God is love, yes. But that is not all God is. God is vengeful also. (Rom. 12:19) (Heb. 10:30) God hates. (Mal. 1:3) (Rom. 9:13) When a father defends and kills those who are trying to kill or molest his family, is that love? Yes, but it is directed toward his family. Not those who he kills.

I am not arguing against the justice of God in sending people to hell. I agree they get what they want, and what they deserve. What I am saying is God doesn't love them who He sends to Hell or the Lake of Fire. You want to make God nothing but love. But love is not portrayed, when God sends most to Hell, to those He sends to Hell. His righteousness is, yes. His justice is, yes. His love is exhibited to those who are His people, when He sends the rest to Hell.

The point concerning Christ and the Father is that the Father's will is always done. There is no rule established by God where His rule is not the sole authority...even in Hell or the Lake of Fire. God is sole authority of and in Hell also. And, as I said, just because we will rule with Him, does not mean He is not dictatorial. For we will only rule in accordance with His will.

Well, of course (Revelation) is apocalyptic. That doesn't make any difference towards it being literal or spiritual. Neither does the use of symbols or signs make it less literal. Signs and symbols speak to a literal truth. Not something vague and imaginary.

That the book of (Revelation) concerns the future is established at the beginning. (Rev. 1:3)

Why do you call 'reality' wooden?

Quantrill

[PinSeeker]

If I am not calling God evil, yet you believe I am, the error is on you not me.

If you don't think you ran a red light, butLOL! Quantrill, if you get a ticket from a police officer who has video with your vehicle and you driving it, running said red light, but you maintain your innocence, is the "error" on the police officer and not you?

...tell me, what political rule, be it democracy, socialism, monarchy, etc. etc., is not defined as evil as seen played out in human experience?

Aside from a dictatorship, none of them is evil in and of themselves, Quantrill. What you're doing is the equivalent of calling an inanimate object evil, which is silly. But anything can be misused and/or misapplied -- used in evil ways -- by human beings. Such is the case of every system of governance -- except a dictatorship. Only a dictatorship is by definition evil -- because it takes away the rights and even personhood, really, of its citizens.

Yes, God is sovereign. Thus He is dictatorial.

Nope. The United States of America is a sovereign country. Is it dictatorial? No. A country can be sovereign and dictatorial, as is the case with some countries in this world. But sovereignty and dictatorial-ness (not a word, I know, but you understand) can not be linked as co-relational.

You speak as though God is only love. God is love, yes. But that is not all God is. God is vengeful also. (Rom. 12:19) (Heb. 10:30) God hates. (Mal. 1:3) (Rom. 9:13) When a father defends and kills those who are trying to kill or molest his family, is that love? Yes, but it is directed toward his family. Not those who he kills.

What one's actions are does not depend on how those actions are perceived by the receiver, Quantrill. In your example, those who kill or molest are guilty of heinous crimes and deserving discipline and even punishment, which are also forms of love. The opposite of love, Quantrill, is not vengeance or even hate, but rather indifference.

I am not arguing against the justice of God in sending people to hell. I agree they get what they want, and what they deserve.

I understand that. Good.

What I am saying is God doesn't love them who He sends to Hell or the Lake of Fire.

Well, as per above, He doesn't love them in the same way as those whom He has mercy upon and grants everlasting life. But he does love all of His creation. As you must know, God doesn't desire than any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and thus be granted everlasting life.

You want to make God nothing but love.

Right, because the Bible says so.

But love is not portrayed, when God sends most to Hell, to those He sends to Hell.

Yeah, no. See above. Whether someone is acting in love or not does not depend on how it "feels" to others.

Well, of course (Revelation) is apocalyptic. That doesn't make any difference towards it being literal or spiritual. Neither does the use of symbols or signs make it less literal. Signs and symbols speak to a literal truth. Not something vague and imaginary.

Right, but this is not the inference I was making. Not even close.

That the book of (Revelation) concerns the future is established at the beginning. (Rev. 1:3)

Right, but Revelation was written in the first few decades after Christ's ascension to heaven, Quantrill. Two thousand years ago.

Why do you call 'reality' wooden?

I didn't call reality wooden, Quantrill. I only called the dispensational take on the reality described in Revelation "wooden."

[Miles]

@Miles Concerning your post #22

Evil in the Bible can be the spiritual force opposed to God or it can be disastrous and terrible things that occur to man.

If it opposed god then why in the world would god create it?

God can very well be behind some disastrous and terrible things that happen to man. But God is not an evil force.

So what would you call someone who forces evil upon humanity if he isn't an evil force?

Just as satan, who is evil personified in an angel, can do very good things. But just because he does those good things doesn't make them good. They are evil.

Then you're just playing fast and loose withe the terms "good" and "evil." Redefine them however you please. To me it's meaningless.

Concerning the evil and wickedness in the world, yes there is much. Concerning God's role in it, yes, none of it would have ever occurred if it was not part of His plan. God could have killed satan right off the bat. God could have stopped satan from entering the garden and tempting man. But He didn't. Why? It was his plan. Men and angels are involved in this work that God is doing. And it will go as God has planned it to. That is why we have the book of (Revelation). We know how it will end.

And is't that nice. Here's an all-powerful being who can do absolutely anything he wants, and what does he want to do? How about creating things called humans to mess with? Sometimes investing them the desire to wage war so as to kill each, or how about sending natural catastrophes to make them suffer. OR,how about simply giving some of the cancer when they're toddlers, and killing them off before they reach an age to count?

Yes God instituted slavery. And as an institution there were rules. God never said we had to own slaves. But slavery is the natural condition of all men.

Is it a natural condition within humanity in the 21st century? No it isn't. Thing is, in main the people of today despise slavery, making them far more more moral than the god depicted in the Bible.

Of course to Americans slavery is a greater sin than crucifying Christ. John Brown is the 'christ' to America.

No, just immoral.

But Americans are on the road to negro worship. So, yes, I agree with God. Slavery is not evil. It is but the natural condition of man. And man is always trying to be free and independent, sound familiar, from God. God is for dependence. Not independence. You are a slave either to God or satan. It doesn't matter if you acknowledge it or not. You are.

Okay, when you want to be serious let me know.

[Quantrill]

If you don't think you ran a red light, butLOL! Quantrill, if you get a ticket from a police officer who has video with your vehicle and you driving it, running said red light, but you maintain your innocence, is the "error" on the police officer and not you?

Aside from a dictatorship, none of them is evil in and of themselves, Quantrill. What you're doing is the equivalent of calling an inanimate object evil, which is silly. But anything can be misused and/or misapplied -- used in evil ways -- by human beings. Such is the case of every system of governance -- except a dictatorship. Only a dictatorship is by definition evil -- because it takes away the rights and even personhood, really, of its citizens.


Nope. The United States of America is a sovereign country. Is it dictatorial? No. A country can be sovereign and dictatorial, as is the case with some countries in this world. But sovereignty and dictatorial-ness (not a word, I know, but you understand) can not be linked as co-relational.

What one's actions are does not depend on how those actions are perceived by the receiver, Quantrill. In your example, those who kill or molest are guilty of heinous crimes and deserving discipline and even punishment, which are also forms of love. The opposite of love, Quantrill, is not vengeance or even hate, but rather indifference.

I understand that. Good.

Well, as per above, He doesn't love them in the same way as those whom He has mercy upon and grants everlasting life. But he does love all of His creation. As you must know, God doesn't desire than any should perish, but that all should come to repentance and thus be granted everlasting life.

Right, because the Bible says so.

Yeah, no. See above. Whether someone is acting in love or not does not depend on how it "feels" to others.

Right, but this is not the inference I was making. Not even close.

Right, but Revelation was written in the first few decades after Christ's ascension to heaven, Quantrill. Two thousand years ago.

I didn't call reality wooden, Quantrill. I only called the dispensational take on the reality described in Revelation "wooden."

Who made you the police? Herein lies the problem.

Who says dictatorial rule is evil? You. Again, who made you the police? Dictatorial rule is no more evil than any other form of government rule. Your basing your definition on the worlds terms. Why? Do you think the world knows what is evil and good? All governments take away the rights of it's citizens. What rights will the people of God have in the Kingdom?

What a hypocrite you are. You say sovereignty and dictatorial form of government cannot be compared. Yet you want to say love proves God is not dictatorial. In both cases it is you who made the comparison.

Being guilty of crimes and deserving of punishment is not the point. The point is, God is not just a God of love. He is a God of vengeance, and of hate, as is proved in the Scriptures I gave. Do you agree that God can hate and be vengeful? And, no, the opposite of love is hate. Funny how you have to make to up your own definitions to fit your lack of knowledge of God.

No, God doesn't love those who He sends to Hell or the Lake of Fire. If He did, He wouldn't send them there. Esau is there. And God hated Esau. satan is there. Do you think God loves satan?

No, the Bible does not say God is only love. That is what you are saying. God is hate and vengeful also, as the Scripture says.

Uh, yeah, no...see above.

Well, yes it was the inference you were making. Funny how I don't declare God is evil, yet you are adamant that I am declaring God is evil by what I am saying. But when what you are saying can be inferred as mistaken, such as 'literal' and 'spiritual', then I must be mistaken. Yet you don't say how or why I am mistaken. Why? Because I am not.

So what? The whole Bible is very old. Written many years ago. That doesn't mean prophecy has all been fulfilled. What kind of argument is that? A foolish one.

Why is the Dispensational take on 'reality' wooden? Better yet, what is the Dispensational take on reality?

Quantrill

[Quantrill]

If it opposed god then why in the world would god create it?

So what would you call someone who forces evil upon humanity if he isn't an evil force?

Then you're just playing fast and loose withe the terms "good" and "evil." Redefine them however you please. To me it's meaningless.

And is't that nice. Here's an all-powerful being who can do absolutely anything he wants, and what does he want to do? How about creating things called humans to mess with? Sometimes investing them the desire to wage war so as to kill each, or how about sending natural catastrophes to make them suffer. OR,how about simply giving some of the cancer when they're toddlers, and killing them off before they reach an age to count?

Is it a natural condition within humanity in the 21st century? No it isn't. Thing is, in main the people of today despise slavery, making them far more more moral than the god depicted in the Bible.

No, just immoral.

Okay, when you want to be serious let me know.

Any life God creates, will be less than God. Will be in opposition to God. To bring them to a place of acceptance with Him and live in His presence forever with no opposition possible, is why God is doing the work He is doing.

I call God good, as the Bible does.

I am not redefining anything. You asked and I explained. You don't like it, so it is to you, meaningless. Big deal. What you are saying is meaningless to me. So, what now? In other words your opinions of God and the Bible mean nothing to me. I will explain what I can, but your opinions of God and the Bible have no affect on me whatsoever.

Yes, it is nice. God is doing a work whereby His people will be totally accepted by Him, and have no threat of ever falling away from Him or being in opposition to Him. That bothers you...doesn't it?

Yes, slavery is the condition of man today as it has always been. That includes those of God and those not of God. God's people, the Christians today, have been bought and paid for by the blood of Christ. We are slaves to God. Those who reject God are slaves to satan. You're a slave either way. You may shout you are free and have no master, but that is just bs. When one becomes a Christian, he doesn't cease to be a slave. He changes his master.

'Morality' is mans term for his 'goodness'. It changes from man to man. It plays no role with God.

I am serious as a heart attack. That bothers you doesn't it.

Quantrill