God's love is not true, but reactionary

Menotu · Post by **Menotu** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 7:36 pm

There are song that are sang, and versus quoted about it, but is it true?
Does God love?
Does God love humanity?

God drowned almost the entire planet (not just people, but all living things (well, except those that lived in the water)).
This was God's version of justice, some say. Everything was so bad he had to, kinda', start over (all that badness must have sneaked up on him, of course).

God (seeming loving to drowning with water, which, itself, is worthy of its own topic) and drowned the pharaoh and his troupes.
Even though he hardened pharaoh's heart because, maybe, pharaoh wasn't playing in to God's game/

God threw out Adam and Eve when they sinned even though he not only allowed it to happen, but knew it would happened (the first time something 'bad' sneaked up on him).
God didn't seem to want to let Adam and Eve know much about the truth - guess he wanted robots? Even today, much of 'the church' is against learning new things, instead they're told what to believe because 'the bible says so'.

Some churches even preach God is hate (and they cite precious bible verses to support their belief)

Yes yes, we all heard 'For God so loved the world....' yet, this wouldn't be necessary if he didn't allow the fall to begin with. So it's not true love, it's totally reactionary.

What is happening now shows God love us?
Because we haven't be swept away in the waves?
Because we haven't been turned in to pillars of salt?
Because the bible says so?

How is everyone (non-believers included) supposed to know God loves them?

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:03 pm

Menotu wrote:How is everyone (non-believers included) supposed to know God loves them?

By recognising that everything that has ever made us smile or given us pleasure or made us happy (including our children) we have because of Him. If giving someone everything that makes life worth living isn't a sign they are loved, I don't know what is.

MATTHEW 5:45

He makes his sun rise on both the wicked and the good and makes it rain on both the righteous and the unrighteous.

RELATED POSTS

Is God more killer than kind?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p959154

Can anyone explain what the bible expression "God is love" actually means?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 54#p954754

How great is God?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p954181

What are the top 40 qualities of Jehovah's personality?
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 44#p869944

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Mon Mar 09, 2020 9:10 pm

Jehovah has had to make some seriously huge moves against wickedness to save good people from misery. I think that is loving.

And He didn't make anyone's heart hard. The idea is---He ALLOWED a person's heart to grow hardened. He wouldn't purposely make someone bad. That is ridiculous. His love for humans and the planet is obvious from how intricate and varied His creations are, for our enjoyment.

.

brunumb · Post by **brunumb** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:38 am

[Replying to post 2 by JehovahsWitness]

By recognising that everything that has ever made us smile or given us pleasure or made us happy (including our children) we have because of Him.

The ultimate in cherry picking. By the same token we can say that everything that has ever made us frown or given us pain or made us miserable (including our children) we have because of Him.

brunumb · Post by **brunumb** » Tue Mar 10, 2020 12:42 am

[Replying to post 3 by onewithhim]

And He didn't make anyone's heart hard. The idea is---He ALLOWED a person's heart to grow hardened.

The Bible differs from you on that one. Not only did God harden the pharaoh's heart, he said in advance that he would do so. Killing the innocent first born (including livestock) just to win a battle of wits between an omnipotent deity and a mere human being is hardly a sign of love.

Menotu · Post by **Menotu** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:56 pm

[Replying to post 3 by onewithhim]

[quoe[Jehovah has had to make some seriously huge moves against wickedness to save good people from misery. I think that is loving. [/quote] Seems rather disgusting to kill so many (including babies, women giving birth, animals) for a few do gooders

He ALLOWED a person's heart to grow hardened.

Which is 99% the same thing. But you know what's worse than that? He then killed them acting like 'Oh my! Look at what they did! They hardened their hearst! Now I must kill them!"

He wouldn't purposely make someone bad. That is ridiculous.

No what's ridiculous is making Adam and Eve and the garden, allowing another one of his creations to come in and destroy it then act like a surprised spoiled child.
That's ridiculous

Menotu · Post by **Menotu** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:59 pm

brunumb wrote: [Replying to post 3 by onewithhim]

And He didn't make anyone's heart hard. The idea is---He ALLOWED a person's heart to grow hardened.
The Bible differs from you on that one. Not only did God harden the pharaoh's heart, he said in advance that he would do so. Killing the innocent first born (including livestock) just to win a battle of wits between an omnipotent deity and a mere human being is hardly a sign of love.

It's a disgusting sign of something that's not only evil, but calculatingly evil. Then he acts all surprised that it happened and now, big bad boy God has to play judge jury and executioner and BAM, that will make us love him.

That this truly isn't worthy of any worship of anything

JehovahsWitness · Post by **JehovahsWitness** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:07 pm

[Replying to post 7 by Menotu]

That would depend on what one believes God "hardening someones heart" means. The way we Jehovahs Witnesses interpret it, it was not at all incompatable with the actions of a wise and loving God.

JW

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:26 pm

brunumb wrote: [Replying to post 3 by onewithhim]

And He didn't make anyone's heart hard. The idea is---He ALLOWED a person's heart to grow hardened.
The Bible differs from you on that one. Not only did God harden the pharaoh's heart, he said in advance that he would do so. Killing the innocent first born (including livestock) just to win a battle of wits between an omnipotent deity and a mere human being is hardly a sign of love.

Jehovah takes human beings seriously. He doesn't consider us as little ants. He always seeks to communicate with humans in a meaningful, helpful way. Pharaoh insisted on being stubborn and disrespectful. Therefore Jehovah gave him choices. Pharaoh chose the wrong actions. So he reaped the consequences. If any innocents died (which was probably the case), He will resurrect them in the last day.

.

onewithhim · Post by **onewithhim** » Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:34 pm

Menotu wrote: [Replying to post 3 by onewithhim]

[quoe[Jehovah has had to make some seriously huge moves against wickedness to save good people from misery. I think that is loving.

Seems rather disgusting to kill so many (including babies, women giving birth, animals) for a few do gooders

He ALLOWED a person's heart to grow hardened.

Which is 99% the same thing. But you know what's worse than that? He then killed them acting like 'Oh my! Look at what they did! They hardened their hearst! Now I must kill them!"

He wouldn't purposely make someone bad. That is ridiculous.

No what's ridiculous is making Adam and Eve and the garden, allowing another one of his creations to come in and destroy it then act like a surprised spoiled child.
That's ridiculous[/quote]

ONEWITHHIM RESPONDS:

Alright. Your opinion is your prerogative. We will have to agree to disagree.

Debating Christianity and Religion

God's love is not true, but reactionary

God's love is not true, but reactionary

Re: God's love is not true, but reactionary

Re: God's love is not true, but reactionary