Where is water baptism of Paul?

[Yahwehismywitness]

Jesus says follow him at least 20 times in the gospels.
Jesus was water baptized Matthew 3:14:17
Must do for Holy Spirit promise

Was name change a substitute?

[Checkpoint]

AS A HERODIAN SAUL OF TARSUS HAD THE MOTIVE AND THE OPPORTUNITY
TO WRECK TRUE CHRISTIANITY AND WRITE OUT JESUS BROTHER JAMES

Paul identifies his Herodian kinfolk.

In Romans 16:11 Paul writes: “Greet Herodion, my kinsman.�

Herodian' in this context is one of allegiance, not blood.

Mark 3:6, 12:13; Matthew 22:16; cf. also Mark 8:15, Luke 13:31-32, Acts 4:27)

Anything and everything to defame Paul.

Herodian is one of many Roman believers Paul sent greetings to.

All now had a common allegiance to Jesus the Anointed one, whether or not they were kin(relatives or of the same people).

[Checkpoint]

He never claimed to be a 12th or 13th apostle.

His claim is supported by what Jesus told him, as found in Acts.

Paul said revelation came from no man, Jesus was Son of Man, flesh and blood it was not the true Jesus based on his own words.

Just the same old same old tired misuse of Scripture to prop up your attempts to denigrate Paul.

Paul does not contradict himself, as alleged and misread and misunderstood and misapplied by you.

Luke always wrote about the true Jesus, including in Acts 9.

[Checkpoint]

That is not the issue we are debating.

The issue is Paul's credibility.

You are questioning and/or inferring things from passages in Acts, and I am responding to that.

I accept what Luke wrote in his Acts introduction. His writing is considered, meticulous, and reliable. He knew Paul well.

Luke did not write well of Saul/Paul
Key Points in Acts:
Proved he was not Apostle Act 1:21-27
Murderous past working for Sadducees Acts 26:11
Sadducee help Acts 9:14
Signs and wonders only Acts 9:17


"Violent Ones" in dead seas scrolls Violence described in great detail , including extended reference to "the poor" (Ebionim) the situation how the High Priests in general called the last priests of Jerusalem profited from Violence of the people gather riches and spoils in run up to destruction of Jerusalem. The wicked Priest became puffed up proud and he deserted Yahweh and betrayed the laws because of riches. He plundered and collected the Riches of the Men of Violence, themselves rebels against Yahweh. Eiseman, Robert James Brother of Jesus page 523-524
Proverbs 6:16-19 lists seven things which are also abominations: "haughty eyes, a lying tongue, hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked schemes, feet that are swift in running to mischief, a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers."

Old ground, unfruitful and mostly irrelevant.

This is not about Paul's murderous past as Saul, or who he worked for or was then allied to.

It is about his radical change into the Paul the New Testament reveals, portrays, and affirms.

It is also about you and your persistent attempt to question and contest the place Paul has had for many centuries.

Remember, two of the abominations you listed are these:

" a false witness who utters lies, and one who spreads strife among brothers".

[Elijah John]

That is so hilarious!

Your favorite site with its "recommended reading" has outdone itself.
o
A Greek word has been extracted from 2 Peter 3:15-16 and had its meaning changed from "hard to understand" to "nonsensical with a pejorative intention".

But of course, if you start with the wrong translation, you are bound to end up even further astray.

2 Corinthians 11:8 is not hard to understand he robbed churches?
The seventh commandment forbids unjustly taking or keeping the goods of one's neighbor and wronging him in any way with respect to his goods.

1 Peter 1:14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the passions of your former ignorance,

Acts 5:32 And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.�

Classic.

This post of yours is such a perfect illustration of what Peter wrote:

2 Peter 3:

15 Bear in mind that our Lord’s patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.

16 He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.

Moderator Comment

This is considered a personal attack, in this case using Scripture as a weapon. Please refrain. Only a comment this time, but if there's a next time expect a warning. And Yahwehismywitness, your post can be taken as provocative and uncivil.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Elijah John]

He never claimed to be a 12th or 13th apostle.

His claim is supported by what Jesus told him, as found in Acts.

Paul said revelation came from no man, Jesus was Son of Man, flesh and blood it was not the true Jesus based on his own words.

Just the same old same old tired misuse of Scripture to prop up your attempts to denigrate Paul.

Paul does not contradict himself, as alleged and misread and misunderstood and misapplied by you.

Luke always wrote about the true Jesus, including in Acts 9.

Moderator Comment

Your tone is uncivil. Do not accuse your debating opponent of misreading, misapplying and misunderstanding Scripture. Instead, counter by demonstrating how "Paul does not contradict himself" without making it personal. But your assertion too, is a blanket statement that is not supportable in a single post.

Please review the Rules.


______________

Moderator comments do not count as a strike against any posters. They only serve as an acknowledgment that a post report has been received, but has not been judged to warrant a moderator warning against a particular poster. Any challenges or replies to moderator postings should be made via Private Message to avoid derailing topics.

[Yahwehismywitness]

2 Corinthians 11:8 is not hard to understand he robbed churches

Forgive me if you think this was being used as a weapon but it was not I do not like people stealing from others and then boasting about it care not who does it don't like it.

[Checkpoint]

2 Corinthians 11:8 is not hard to understand he robbed churches

Forgive me if you think this was being used as a weapon but it was not I do not like people stealing from others and then boasting about it care not who does it don't like it.

Thanks. I do forgive you.

Neither do I like people stealing from others.

Paul here was not talking literally.

Pulpit Commentary

Verse 8. - I robbed; literally, I ravaged, or plundered.

The intensity of St. Paul's feelings, smarting under base calumny and ingratitude, reveals itself by the passionate expression which he here uses. Other Churches. The only Church of which we know as contributing to St. Paul's needs is that at Philippi (Philippians 4:15, 16). Taking wages. The expression is again impassioned. It is meant ironically rather than literally.

[Yahwehismywitness]

Thanks. I do forgive you.

Neither do I like people stealing from others.

Paul here was not talking literally.

I take it literally because Jesus taught his Apostles and disciples to go without And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?� So they said, “Nothing.� Luke 22:35

Carry neither purse, nor scrip, nor shoes: and salute no man by the way.
Luke 10:4

No man can serve two masters: for either he. will hate the one, and love the other; or else. he will hold to the one, and despise the other, Ye cannot serve God and mammon.Matthew 6:24 is why he sent them without money

They went out as lambs among wolves Luke 10:3 Sent out seventy two by two in this way Luke 10:1 this is how Jesus taught he said over 20 times in the gospels to follow him

[Yahwehismywitness]

Anansis was called wicked Priest to the Violent Ones of the Gentiles in Dead Sea Scrolls Robert Eiseman pg 407 James the Brother of Jesus

"3 Nets of Belial" in dead sea documents: fornication that includes all sexual imperfections, the second "the riches" and the third allowing Herodians of this stripe into the temple pg 540 James Brother of Jesus

Both Ananias and Ananus were extremely rich they robbed the tithes of poor priests in Josephus accounts of the violence High Priests were willing to use with the people page 554 James the brother of Jesus

It seems this is proof of who Paul worked for and followed.
Saulus/Paulus had political clout. When Saul/Paul is arrested, the commander assigns, get this, 470 men to guard Paul’s life!

“Get ready a detachment of two hundred soldiers, seventy horsemen and two hundred spearmen to go to Caesarea at nine tonight. 24 Provide horses for Paul so that he may be taken safely to Governor Felix.� (Acts 23:23)

200 soliders
70 horsemen
200 spearmen

Yes, Paul was a Roman citizen, but Roman citizen’s didn’t normally receive 470 body guards. Saul/Paul was being protected because he was connected to the family of Herod Agrippa. He stated this in Romans 16:11 Paul writes: “Greet Herodion, my kinsman.�

[Yahwehismywitness]

Galatians 2:9 Paul blandly remarks that "those reputed to be Pillars or reckoned important had nothing to add to the version of the gospel that he proclaimed among the Gentiles.

Galatians 1:12
For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

All of the ones Paul speaks of Jesus, James, John and Peter spent 3 years together with Jesus and followed his words but none of these men imparted anything. In the Apostolic Epistles we find nothing of the sort.

Contrariwise, in I Cor. vii:40 Paul speaks according to his own opinion and in many passages we come across doubtful and perplexed phrase; such as, "We think, therefore," Rom. iii:28; "Now I think," Rom. viii:18, and so on. (6) Besides these, other expressions are met with very different from those used by the prophets. (7) For instance, 1 Cor. vii:6, "But I speak this by permission, not by commandment;" "I give my judgment as one that hath obtained mercy of the Lord to be faithful" (1 Cor. vii:25)

Hence Spinoza concluded Paul was conceding he was not inspired generally, if ever, in anything he wrote. See Spinoza, A Theologico-Political Treatise (1883) chapter 11
https://www.sacred-texts.com/phi/spinoz ... /tpt17.htm

Paul amazingly in Galatians 2:2 says revelations sent him to Jerusalem, but Paul then admits he went because he was unsure he was running in the correct direction If you or I were sure we were having revelations from God, why would we be unsure and need other men to confirm what we teach?