“The Devil made me do it� is a well-known phrase that people often associate with movies and courtrooms. The idea that Satan (the Devil, Lucifer, etc.) somehow has the power to possess people, and direct or persuade them to act against their own will and against the will of God.
The contention here is: it’s not made especially clear in the Bible what powers Satan possesses. To then ascribe him powers of directing people to evil acts, and of being constantly on the lookout for ways to ‘turn’ people away from God suggests a near-omnipotent, omniscient entity. Yet, the few details about him that we can glean from the Bible don’t seem to support that picture.
Therefore, are those who fear Satan being irrational, as they cannot know with certainty whether he possesses enough power to harm them?
I can easily predict the non-theist’s answer, but am genuinely curious to hear theist arguments for or against. Hence posting in this forum rather than C&A to hopefully reach more Christian views and learn from them.
Is a fear of Satan irrational?
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Yahwehismywitness
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Post #41
https://yahwehismywitness.com/blog/f/th ... ahwehs-law
Roman Catholics acknowledge that the change of the Sabbath was made by their church and declare that Protestants by observing Sunday are recognizing her power.
Daniel 7:25 prophesy And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Does this fulfill Daniel's prophecy?
Son of man is Jesus of the Sabbath meaning King don't mess with it. Luke 6:5
The mark is number of a man Revelation 13:18 Here is the wisdom. Let him that have understanding count the number of the beast.
Roman Catholics acknowledge that the change of the Sabbath was made by their church and declare that Protestants by observing Sunday are recognizing her power.
Daniel 7:25 prophesy And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Does this fulfill Daniel's prophecy?
Son of man is Jesus of the Sabbath meaning King don't mess with it. Luke 6:5
The mark is number of a man Revelation 13:18 Here is the wisdom. Let him that have understanding count the number of the beast.
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Checkpoint
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Post #42
You have put together some verses and some history to suggest or claim what?Yahwehismywitness wrote: https://yahwehismywitness.com/blog/f/th ... ahwehs-law
Roman Catholics acknowledge that the change of the Sabbath was made by their church and declare that Protestants by observing Sunday are recognizing her power.
Daniel 7:25 prophesy And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.
Does this fulfill Daniel's prophecy?
Son of man is Jesus of the Sabbath meaning King don't mess with it. Luke 6:5
The mark is number of a man Revelation 13:18 Here is the wisdom. Let him that have understanding count the number of the beast.
That the mark of the beast is Sunday church meetings?
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Overcomer
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Post #43
Here is what the Bible says about Satan:
He is a murderer and a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44).
He is a thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10).
He prowls around like a lion looking for someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8).
He's crafty (Gen. 3:1).
He is a tempter (Matt. 4:1-11).
He has limited power (John 1:6-12).
Christians do not fear him because:
Greater is the Holy Spirit in us than he (Satan) that is in the world (1 John 4:4).
We have spiritual armour that protects us from him, including a shield of faith and a sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Eph. 6:10-18).
If we resist him (in the power of the Holy Spirit), he will flee (James 4:7).
For a full list of quotations about the devil, see here:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical ... out-satan/
He is a murderer and a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44).
He is a thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10).
He prowls around like a lion looking for someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8).
He's crafty (Gen. 3:1).
He is a tempter (Matt. 4:1-11).
He has limited power (John 1:6-12).
Christians do not fear him because:
Greater is the Holy Spirit in us than he (Satan) that is in the world (1 John 4:4).
We have spiritual armour that protects us from him, including a shield of faith and a sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Eph. 6:10-18).
If we resist him (in the power of the Holy Spirit), he will flee (James 4:7).
For a full list of quotations about the devil, see here:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical ... out-satan/
Post #44
Might not fear him, but some sure have taken a liking to him; doing what he wants, acting out, sinning 7 days a week then being 'sorry' on one day.Overcomer wrote: Here is what the Bible says about Satan:
He is a murderer and a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44).
He is a thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10).
He prowls around like a lion looking for someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8).
He's crafty (Gen. 3:1).
He is a tempter (Matt. 4:1-11).
He has limited power (John 1:6-12).
Christians do not fear him because:
Greater is the Holy Spirit in us than he (Satan) that is in the world (1 John 4:4).
We have spiritual armour that protects us from him, including a shield of faith and a sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Eph. 6:10-18).
If we resist him (in the power of the Holy Spirit), he will flee (James 4:7).
For a full list of quotations about the devil, see here:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical ... out-satan/
Satan is rather convenient and likable for many Christians
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Checkpoint
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Post #45
How about you?Menotu wrote:Might not fear him, but some sure have taken a liking to him; doing what he wants, acting out, sinning 7 days a week then being 'sorry' on one day.Overcomer wrote: Here is what the Bible says about Satan:
He is a murderer and a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44).
He is a thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10).
He prowls around like a lion looking for someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8).
He's crafty (Gen. 3:1).
He is a tempter (Matt. 4:1-11).
He has limited power (John 1:6-12).
Christians do not fear him because:
Greater is the Holy Spirit in us than he (Satan) that is in the world (1 John 4:4).
We have spiritual armour that protects us from him, including a shield of faith and a sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Eph. 6:10-18).
If we resist him (in the power of the Holy Spirit), he will flee (James 4:7).
For a full list of quotations about the devil, see here:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical ... out-satan/
Satan is rather convenient and likable for many Christians
You may not fear Satan, you may not like him; if not, how then do you view him?
Post #46
First you'd have to define Satan.Checkpoint wrote:How about you?Menotu wrote:Might not fear him, but some sure have taken a liking to him; doing what he wants, acting out, sinning 7 days a week then being 'sorry' on one day.Overcomer wrote: Here is what the Bible says about Satan:
He is a murderer and a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44).
He is a thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10).
He prowls around like a lion looking for someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8).
He's crafty (Gen. 3:1).
He is a tempter (Matt. 4:1-11).
He has limited power (John 1:6-12).
Christians do not fear him because:
Greater is the Holy Spirit in us than he (Satan) that is in the world (1 John 4:4).
We have spiritual armour that protects us from him, including a shield of faith and a sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Eph. 6:10-18).
If we resist him (in the power of the Holy Spirit), he will flee (James 4:7).
For a full list of quotations about the devil, see here:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical ... out-satan/
Satan is rather convenient and likable for many Christians
You may not fear Satan, you may not like him; if not, how then do you view him?
Are you talking about a real being not like what's in the bible, or the same one?
Are you talking about what some worship in a more natural sense and less of a good vs. evil sense?
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Checkpoint
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Post #47
I am looking for two answers relating to two definitions.Menotu wrote:First you'd have to define Satan.Checkpoint wrote:How about you?Menotu wrote:Might not fear him, but some sure have taken a liking to him; doing what he wants, acting out, sinning 7 days a week then being 'sorry' on one day.Overcomer wrote: Here is what the Bible says about Satan:
He is a murderer and a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44).
He is a thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10).
He prowls around like a lion looking for someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8).
He's crafty (Gen. 3:1).
He is a tempter (Matt. 4:1-11).
He has limited power (John 1:6-12).
Christians do not fear him because:
Greater is the Holy Spirit in us than he (Satan) that is in the world (1 John 4:4).
We have spiritual armour that protects us from him, including a shield of faith and a sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Eph. 6:10-18).
If we resist him (in the power of the Holy Spirit), he will flee (James 4:7).
For a full list of quotations about the devil, see here:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical ... out-satan/
Satan is rather convenient and likable for many Christians
You may not fear Satan, you may not like him; if not, how then do you view him?
Are you talking about a real being not like what's in the bible, or the same one?
Are you talking about what some worship in a more natural sense and less of a good vs. evil sense?
1) The one described in the Bible, the details of which are summarized in Overcomer's post.
2) The one that best fits your own beliefs and/or experiences(perhaps one of the two you mentioned).
Post #48
1) Satan of the bible initially wanted one of two things, depending on who teaches it:Checkpoint wrote:I am looking for two answers relating to two definitions.Menotu wrote:First you'd have to define Satan.Checkpoint wrote:How about you?Menotu wrote:Might not fear him, but some sure have taken a liking to him; doing what he wants, acting out, sinning 7 days a week then being 'sorry' on one day.Overcomer wrote: Here is what the Bible says about Satan:
He is a murderer and a liar and the father of lies (John 8:44).
He is a thief who comes to steal, kill and destroy (John 10:10).
He prowls around like a lion looking for someone to devour (1 Peter 5:8).
He's crafty (Gen. 3:1).
He is a tempter (Matt. 4:1-11).
He has limited power (John 1:6-12).
Christians do not fear him because:
Greater is the Holy Spirit in us than he (Satan) that is in the world (1 John 4:4).
We have spiritual armour that protects us from him, including a shield of faith and a sword of the Spirit which is the Word of God (Eph. 6:10-18).
If we resist him (in the power of the Holy Spirit), he will flee (James 4:7).
For a full list of quotations about the devil, see here:
https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical ... out-satan/
Satan is rather convenient and likable for many Christians
You may not fear Satan, you may not like him; if not, how then do you view him?
Are you talking about a real being not like what's in the bible, or the same one?
Are you talking about what some worship in a more natural sense and less of a good vs. evil sense?
1) The one described in the Bible, the details of which are summarized in Overcomer's post.
2) The one that best fits your own beliefs and/or experiences(perhaps one of the two you mentioned).
He wanted to hurt God by hurting God's relationship with his humans or he wanted people to know the truth.
If you go with the 'hurting' aspect, I don't put much importance in that as that seems to be a buff between him and God. God would have known what was happening or going to happen. If God, after the fall, is all upset, then God's a spoiled cry baby - I ain't got no time for that
If you go with the idea of 'wanting people to know', I don't have any issue with that as God didn't seem to want people to know - he wanted robots to kiss up to him
The biblical Satan got a bum-wrap from Christianity either way you look at it.
If you go with the non-biblical idea of Satan (the one that's more naturally involved that some claim) I don't have any issues with that at all, but I don't need to worship it for any reason.
I suppose in any scenario one could fear it. Or not.
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brianbbs67
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