Former Christians

[Menotu]

It's been said here (and elsewhere) to those that were Christian but no longer are, that they were never really Christians to begin with.

This doesn't seem to be true.

With the definition of things like sin, Christian, love, etc not being agreeable across the board (even within Christianity) and with Christianity having so many different sects (all claiming to be correct), it's not likely anyone can tell another person they were or weren't a Christian.

Or is this not correct?
Were former Christians, with their faith, bible reading and studying, being yolked with fellow believers, having been touched by God, saved, baptized, etc wrong?

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 10 by Overcomer]

In other words, if you're born again, you're born again. Period!

Does this equate to 'once saved always saved'?
Sure seems to say that to me eyes.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Menotu]

I believe that there are people who were actually true Christians but then changed their minds and decided to step off the narrow road leading to life. Jesus and his disciples indicated that this would be so.

Hebrews 6:4-6

2Peter 2:20


It's not hard to understand if we remember that Adam himself was created perfect and had a close relationship with Jehovah, but he decided to become independent of his Creator and Friend and live life according to his own rules. That is why we call it "The Fall" of mankind.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 10 by Overcomer]

In other words, if you're born again, you're born again. Period!

Does this equate to 'once saved always saved'?
Sure seems to say that to me eyes.

And to me too.

Answers are needed to two questions:

1) Did overcomer mean that as to why it came out that way - or have we misread the meaning intended?

2) What are the facts about the significance of being "born again"?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 10 by Overcomer]

In other words, if you're born again, you're born again. Period!

Does this equate to 'once saved always saved'?
Sure seems to say that to me eyes.

Yes, I would say so. And there are many scriptures that show us that a person (even those that are born again) can fall away. It is very clear, if one reads Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 6:4-6, just to mention 2.



.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 10 by Overcomer]

In other words, if you're born again, you're born again. Period!

Does this equate to 'once saved always saved'?
Sure seems to say that to me eyes.

Yes, I would say so. And there are many scriptures that show us that a person (even those that are born again) can fall away. It is very clear, if one reads Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 6:4-6, just to mention 2.



.

That's interesting as many Christians - some here - say the 'once saved always saved' concept is not right
It's funny (weird, sad, expected?) how so many beliefs can come from the same source.
I guess that's what happens when one doesn't have something tactile on which to base their lifestyle choices.

[Checkpoint]

[Replying to post 10 by Overcomer]

In other words, if you're born again, you're born again. Period!

Does this equate to 'once saved always saved'?
Sure seems to say that to me eyes.

Yes, I would say so. And there are many scriptures that show us that a person (even those that are born again) can fall away. It is very clear, if one reads Colossians 1:21-23; Hebrews 6:4-6, just to mention 2.



.

That's interesting as many Christians - some here - say the 'once saved always saved' concept is not right
It's funny (weird, sad, expected?) how so many beliefs can come from the same source.
I guess that's what happens when one doesn't have something tactile on which to base their lifestyle choices.

What is "the same source" you say many come from?

What did you have in mind when you wrote, "have something tactile on which to base their lifestyle choices"?

[Yahwehismywitness]

That's disheartening and convenient at the same time.

I think the father would be excited you are no longer a christian will explain. Christian is only mentioned in the bible 3 times after the death of Jesus it seems to be a Roman term. Yeshua is his real name has nothing to do with fake name "Christ". In his name, you preach, cast out demons and heal his real name in other words.

The real question is are you a believer it is mentioned over 100 times in the bible. It is much easier to be a believer. Hope this helps

[PinSeeker]

The point (as is so often the case) is being missed by many here. Yes, experientially speaking -- from a humanistic perspective -- people can, of their own free will and accord, fall away from belief in God/Christ. We have brains, and we make decisions. No one would disagree with that.

However... regarding repentance and belief and true saving faith, it is the heart that matters, not merely the brain. As Paul says:

• "...if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved." [Romans 10:9, emphasis added]

But God is the one Who truly changes hearts, thus granting salvation. As the prophet says:

• "...I will cleanse you. And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you" [Ezekiel 36:26-27]

And, as Paul, speaking of God, tells us in ,

• "He Who began a good word in you will..." -- will, not might -- "...bring it to completion at the Day of Christ." [Philippians 1:6]

So, again, very clearly, for those who do fall away, their hearts were never changed in the first place. As John says:

• "...if they had been of us..." -- meaning like-hearted, regenerate of God -- "...they would not have gone out from us but would have continued with us." [1 John 2:19-21]

So the whole debate about "once saved always saved" is misundertood... or only partially understood... by some/many. It depends on the mindset a person has in approaching it. From a humanistic standpoint, the answer is an emphatic "no." But from God's perspective -- as clearly spelled out by God Himself -- the answer is an emphatic and unmistakable "Yes." In the last quote above, John is without question speaking (writing) to Christians -- believers -- with God's perspective in mind.

Grace and peace to all.

[Yahwehismywitness]

So the whole debate about "once saved always saved" is misundertood... or only partially understood.

It is not true there is no misunderstanding you quote Paul that is the cause of misunderstanding he is not my master do not follow him.

Righteousness is what Jesus preached obey will of Father which is commandments. How many times are you forgiven 7 Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times? Until seventy times seven Mathew 18:21-22
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." Matthew 7:21. But he that endures to the end will be saved Matthew 24:13

Are you aware the Pauline Christians killed early believers in Jesus and destroyed their writings? The Ebions (POOR) for following the book of Mathew. Do you know Josephus wrote that Paul pushed James the Just down temple steps that broke both his legs? I do not believe Jesus chose him for one second Jesus said give to the Poor and James was his brother.

[Menotu]

[Replying to post 16 by Checkpoint]

What is "the same source" you say many come from?

Bible, for instance. Could also have God listed as the same source

What did you have in mind when you wrote, "have something tactile on which to base their lifestyle choices"?

Tactile might not have been the best word to use. Proof. Facts. Something not of the ether, mystical, that requires faith.