Lukewarm Christians

[OnceConvinced]

Throughout my years as a Christian I often heard this particular scripture quoted with regards to lukewarm Christians (ie, Christians who aren't really putting their heart and soul into their faith - wishy washy Christians):

Rev 3:16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."

Really if one takes the above scripture as condemnation to lukewarm Christians, it really contradicts the notion that all it takes to be saved is to repent and acknowledge Christ as your personal savior. It means that works are required to maintain your salvation. It also opens up a can of worms when it comes to determining who are the hot and who are the cold. It really takes away any assurance of salvation, because how do you know whether you are hot enough?

As I became a Christian who learnt to seek answers for themselves, rather than just trusting everything I was taught, I read this verse in the context of the entire chapter. Well actually the verses from 7-22 which are aimed specifically at the church of Philadelphia. If you take it in context it is a verse obviously aimed at those who have not yet accepted Christ as their savior. In other words, non-Christians! ie, If you are hot, have made the decision to follow Christ. If you are cold it means you haven't.

This scripture is aimed at people sitting "on the fence" who have not made a decision to follow Christ. In this case they are people who in verse 17 it says believe they have everything they need, who see no need for Christ in their lives. In v19 it then goes on to say that these people need to repent.

So questions:

Is verse 16 refering to wishy washy Christians or people who have not yet accepted Christ as their lord and savior? Or does this scripture refer to something else all together?
Please justify your answer.

[drs]

Throughout my years as a Christian I often heard this particular scripture quoted with regards to lukewarm Christians (ie, Christians who aren't really putting their heart and soul into their faith - wishy washy Christians):

Rev 3:16 "So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."

Really if one takes the above scripture as condemnation to lukewarm Christians, it really contradicts the notion that all it takes to be saved is to repent and acknowledge Christ as your personal savior. It means that works are required to maintain your salvation. It also opens up a can of worms when it comes to determining who are the hot and who are the cold. It really takes away any assurance of salvation, because how do you know whether you are hot enough?

As I became a Christian who learnt to seek answers for themselves, rather than just trusting everything I was taught, I read this verse in the context of the entire chapter. Well actually the verses from 7-22 which are aimed specifically at the church of Philadelphia. If you take it in context it is a verse obviously aimed at those who have not yet accepted Christ as their savior. In other words, non-Christians! ie, If you are hot, have made the decision to follow Christ. If you are cold it means you haven't.

This scripture is aimed at people sitting "on the fence" who have not made a decision to follow Christ. In this case they are people who in verse 17 it says believe they have everything they need, who see no need for Christ in their lives. In v19 it then goes on to say that these people need to repent.

So questions:

Is verse 16 refering to wishy washy Christians or people who have not yet accepted Christ as their lord and savior? Or does this scripture refer to something else all together?
Please justify your answer.

First it is the church of Laodiceans

I would have to say this is to Christians who are not doing what is right in the sight of GOD and two those who will come to believe.

verse 14 it is addressed to the church

verse 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent ( this has to be to believers and to those who will believe)

GOD corrects those that are His and grants repentence to those who will believe in CHRIST.


The Lukewarm Church

14 “And to the angel of the church of the Laodiceans[f] write,
‘These things says the Amen, the Faithful and True Witness, the Beginning of the creation of God: 15 “I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. 16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[g] I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see. 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and dine with him, and he with Me. 21 To him who overcomes I will grant to sit with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne.
22 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.�’�

[OnceConvinced]

Addressed to the church, I agree, but as in every church, not everyone who attends have given their lives to Christ, have they? And from my understanding of the church in biblical time, it was more of a close knit community rather than an actual church, so there would have been unbelievers in there.

And if it's as you believe and that true believers are "chosen" then there must have surely been a lot of "false" christians in those churches.

The fact that the word "repent" is being used, suggests strongly it is directed at those who have not been saved already.

If you do see it as referring to luke warm Christians then the can of worms is opened. Who is hot, who is cold? How does one know they are hot?

[drs]

Addressed to the church, I agree, but as in every church, not everyone who attends have given their lives to Christ, have they? And from my understanding of the church in biblical time, it was more of a close knit community rather than an actual church, so there would have been unbelievers in there.

And if it's as you believe and that true believers are "chosen" then there must have surely been a lot of "false" christians in those churches.

The fact that the word "repent" is being used, suggests strongly it is directed at those who have not been saved already.

If you do see it as referring to luke warm Christians then the can of worms is opeI ned. Who is hot, who is cold? How does one know they are hot?

I thought I said that it was twofold addresed to those who would believe.

Also Christians who have fallen from the way need to repent also.

I would have to say this is to Christians who are not doing what is right in the sight of GOD and to those who will come to believe.

verse 19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten. Therefore be zealous and repent ( this has to be to believers and to those who will believe)

GOD corrects those that are His and grants repentence to those who will believe in CHRIST.

[OnceConvinced]

I thought I said that it was twofold addresed to those who would believe.

Also Christians who have fallen from the way need to repent also.

Oh sorry, I obviously didn't get your point. Yeah, that would make sense.

I don't think it can be used to condemn lukewarm Christians though. I believe that is something different again. Would you agree?

[drs]

I thought I said that it was twofold addresed to those who would believe.

Also Christians who have fallen from the way need to repent also.

Oh sorry, I obviously didn't get your point. Yeah, that would make sense.

I don't think it can be used to condemn lukewarm Christians though. I believe that is something different again. Would you agree?

verse 16- 18 here sounds like a prety strong rebuke towards these Christians





16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[g] I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

[Cathar1950]

He does eat the cold ones.
Does ayone think Jesus is going to really eat them?

[kayky]

Jesus does not like his porridge either too hot or too cold--but juuuust right.

[OnceConvinced]

I thought I said that it was twofold addresed to those who would believe.

Also Christians who have fallen from the way need to repent also.

Oh sorry, I obviously didn't get your point. Yeah, that would make sense.

I don't think it can be used to condemn lukewarm Christians though. I believe that is something different again. Would you agree?

verse 16- 18 here sounds like a prety strong rebuke towards these Christians





16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot,[g] I will vomit you out of My mouth. 17 Because you say, ‘I am rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing’—and do not know that you are wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked— 18 I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

I don't think those scriptures are aimed at Christians but unbelievers who do not want to give up their lives and follow God.

[OnceConvinced]

And the big problem becomes just what temperature does the porridge need to be? I'm sure Drs will have his idea, but can we really trust whether his porridge is going to be the temperature God desires? Is there enough sugar on the porridge to make it sweet enough? What if you use the wrong type of sugar? And what about milk. There's light, trim, full cream, powedered... heck this is getting complicated. Can any of us be assured that we are going to be edible?