Physical pain in Hell

[Lux]

For the sake of this discussion, we assume there is a place called Hell, where some people (which people is irrelevant here) go after they die.

Every time I've heard about Hell, it was all about physical pain. Fire, torture, eternal agony. But how can we experience pain after we've died? Our brains cease to work, our neurones die. Our nerves no longer transmit signals. It is observable that a dead person can feel no pain. Otherwise, autopsies would be a terribly inhumane practice.

How can we feel pain, even in Hell, if our brains no longer function?

It has been pointed out to me that what goes to Hell or Heaven are our souls. How is it possible for a soul to feel physical pain?

[Lux]

That's correct except that most will have to undergo the death process once again -- thus the "second death." No big deal compared to what "Christianity" has historically and falsely held in store for nonbelievers.

That doesn't sound bad to me. I guess it could be considered "punishment" by those who are afraid of dying.

The whipping by Satan is surely just a cartoon parody, but the Bible speaks of eternal punishment with fire.

Revelation 14:9-11
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, 10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb: 11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Carefully read this again. I claim that the only item described as eternal in these verses is the smoke. What smoke? The smoke of their torment. What was their torment? The lake of fire. Hell is eternal because it was created for Satan and his rebellious angels. Since they are eternal spirits, their prison must be eternal. Since the fire is eternal, the smoke from the fire is also eternal.

If the smoke of their torment ascends forever, doesn't that mean that their ("those who worship the beast") firey punishment lasts forever?

At this point, what the Bible describes as the eternal fate of nonbelievers and what those who expect nothing happens after the moment of death converge again -- for eternity. They are truly dead, knowing and being aware of absolutely nothing for all eternity:

... the dead know not any thing... (Ecclesiastes 9:5)

So, like Zzyzx pointed out, it's not too different from what atheists (I don't know if all atheists) think comes after death (nothing).

[myth-one.com]

The scriptures are unsealed NOW.

But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: ... (Daniel 12:4)

Are you claiming we are in the "time of the end?"

They will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second and final (and really their first true) death.

Now you really have me confused for all of a sudden the second death turns into the first death which is the only true death? Please explain?

Any humans cast into hell suffer what the Bible calls the second death. Bodies of nonbelievers which are resurrected as mortal in the second resurrection and cast into the lake of fire are burned to death and that is the end of them. Thus, it is called the second death because they have "died" before, otherwise they would not have been buried. The Bible refers to man's first death as sleep.

In summary as regards our mortal physical bodies:

1 - a few people will never die
2 - some will die once, and
3 - some will die twice

The few who will never die are those Christians who are alive at the Second Coming of Christ. Speaking of Christians, the Bible states that those alive at the Second Coming will be born again as spirits and meet Jesus in the air upon his return:

Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. (I Corinthians 15:51)

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. (I Thessalonians 4:17)

Christians (We) shall not all die (sleep), but all will be born again as spirits (changed). When they receive their spiritual bodies their physical bodies are no longer required and will be discarded. These Christians will not experience death in the usual sense. However, as their physical bodies will rot and decay, they could be said to die in that they no longer support a life. Thus the following verse remains a true statement:

And it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

Only one's first death is appointed or mandatory. The second death is optional depending on whether or not one believes in Jesus as their Savior.

Those humans who died as Christians will be born again as spiritual bodies upon Jesus' return. This is the first resurrection. This much larger group will "die" once.

Those who died as nonbelievers and are resurrected again as physical bodies in the second resurrection following the millennium, and still refuse to accept Jesus as their Savior, will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death. These individuals will die twice as humans. There is no recovery from the second death. It is eternal! They do not suffer in hell for eternity. Their death is eternal, not their act of dying! They are gone, dust, erased, nada, gone bye-bye, etc. So these will die twice.

After this, death and the grave are finished. Any remaining life is spiritual, so no one will ever die again. The end of time and the age of man are now completed. Man, as a physical being, no longer exists!

[Zzyzx]

.

The scriptures will be unsealed and nonbelievers will be taught the true good news of the gospel. They will face judgment and their life choices will be reviewed. They will then chose to accept or reject Jesus as their Savior from the wages of sin. If they reject Jesus' offer, they will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second and final (and really their first true) death.

The scriptures are unsealed NOW. But for those who have ears to hear singular

In other words, those who “believe� will consider themselves as capable of “hearing� and will decree that all who disagree with their preaching are “unable to hear�. Is that correct?

Carnal man cannot choose God; God chooses us;

If that is true, no preaching or proselytizing is appropriate since “god� has already “chosen�. Right?

With out God’s spirit quicken us we are as dead as I just mentioned above.

Many who apparently are not “chosen by god� (me included) are “dead�?????

and final (and really their first true) death.

Now you really have me confused for all of a sudden the second death turns into the first death which is the only true death? Please explain?

SOME Christian evidently believe in multiple “deaths� – but have yet to produce evidence (other than ancient tales by storytellers and religious promoters or personal opinions) that such a thing exists.

Your entire “argument� appears to be based on tale from ancient storytellers and religious promoters. Can you verify that any of it is true (in the real world). not in human imganation?

[Benoni]

.

The scriptures will be unsealed and nonbelievers will be taught the true good news of the gospel. They will face judgment and their life choices will be reviewed. They will then chose to accept or reject Jesus as their Savior from the wages of sin. If they reject Jesus' offer, they will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second and final (and really their first true) death.

The scriptures are unsealed NOW. But for those who have ears to hear singular

In other words, those who “believe� will consider themselves as capable of “hearing� and will decree that all who disagree with their preaching are “unable to hear�. Is that correct?

Carnal man cannot choose God; God chooses us;

If that is true, no preaching or proselytizing is appropriate since “god� has already “chosen�. Right?

With out God’s spirit quicken us we are as dead as I just mentioned above.

Many who apparently are not “chosen by god� (me included) are “dead�?????

and final (and really their first true) death.

Now you really have me confused for all of a sudden the second death turns into the first death which is the only true death? Please explain?

SOME Christian evidently believe in multiple “deaths� – but have yet to produce evidence (other than ancient tales by storytellers and religious promoters or personal opinions) that such a thing exists.

Your entire “argument� appears to be based on tale from ancient storytellers and religious promoters. Can you verify that any of it is true (in the real world). not in human imganation?

Z... Why do you even care what I think?

[Benoni]

Myth-one,

First of all there is no such word as “hell� in the original language of the Bible. The four words mistranslated hell have nothing to do with the “second death� which is only mentioned in the Book of Revelation and is pertaining to the Lake of Fire. Seeing the Lake of Fire and the second death are only mentioned in the Book of Revelation which is the most spiritual book in the WHOLE Bible. By the way John was in Spirit on the Lord's day; nothing ever was said in the Book of Revelation about John being literal in any sense of the word.

Let step back some more you are all over the place. I cannot find any where in scripture where the two words “second resurrection� are written next to each other? Now if you are referring to Acts 24:15 it does speak of two resurrections but the second resurrection is pertaining to the unjust (i.e. the lost, the unsaved, the unjust) notice they are being resurrected which means rise in the Greek.

Acts 24:15
And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust.

Here again in Revelation 20:6 God’s Word not my opinion declares “he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ�


again in full.. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

God's Word is not talking about every Christian here He is speaking of the Overcomer, who God will use as Kings and Priest for the remainder of all heathen people (Acts 15:14-18)

You see according to scripture there is a BIG difference between God’s elect compared to the great multitude, which no man could number; but both are saved.

There are two types of people in the Book of Revelation; the Elect/Overcomer and everyone else.

All are heir to salvation does not make you the elect.

Notice there is a distinction between the great multitudes BEFORE the throne (Rev. 7:9) in comparison to the overcomer who Christ will grant to sit with me on my throne (Rev. 3:21) .

Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 3: 21To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

[Benoni]

Great assumption you have here but base on what? Opinion; God’s Word is far to divine for opinion to take center stage. The first death is when Adam died, we all died. You see Adam did not die physically when he died, he died spiritually… He did not die physically until he was 930 years old in Genesis 5:5. Physical death is but a physical example of something very spiritual. See when God speaks of deep spiritual things he uses literal types/examples to show us the spiritual.

1 Corinthians 10:11 (Darby) Now all these things happened to them [as] types, and have been written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages are come.

God’s second are always greater and more awesome then his first; so seeing the Book of Revelation is totally spiritual in nature ;unless you can prove me wrong using scripture seeing I showed you using scripture? Which I would love to see your opinion. You see what you are missing is the understand of death in the hands of a mighty God.

Actually spiritual death the first death is mention all thought out scripture.

Ephesians 2
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

This is the first death; the second death is death to self/death.

[myth-one.com]

I cannot find any where in scripture where the two words “second resurrection� are written next to each other?

Uh, is that some kind of problem?

The Bible states that every dead human will be resurrected:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

The resurrection which we now await is for all dead Christians who will be resurrected at the Second Coming. This will be the first mass resurrection for mankind. It is described in Revelation:

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

If all (believers and nonbelievers) will be resurrected, and only the dead believers are resurrected at what is called the "first resurrection," then there has to be another resurrection for the others which are nonbelievers:

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.

If so, then what might the next sequential resurrection after the first be called?

God’s second are always greater and more awesome then his first; so seeing the Book of Revelation is totally spiritual in nature ;unless you can prove me wrong using scripture seeing I showed you using scripture?

What?

You see what you are missing is the understand of death in the hands of a mighty God.

Actually spiritual death the first death is mention all thought out scripture.

Ok, tell me what I am misunderstanding. What is "spiritual death?"

(Incidentally, I cannot find the words "spiritual death" written next to each other in the scripture. Bummer!)

[Benoni]

myth-one.com

The Bible states that every dead human will be resurrected:

Amen. This is true but is speaking the spiritual death brought on by Adam sin; I will be glad to getting into the scriptural fact of spiritual death. I already posted two verses from Ephesians 2 on this subject if you post 66.

I Corinthians 15:22-23 wrote:
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.


I agree but there is not here about the two resurrections; in fact the 1 Corin. 15:23 tells you the order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

But then you go on and tell us:

“Those who died as nonbelievers and are resurrected again as physical bodies in the second resurrection following the millennium, and still refuse to accept Jesus as their Savior, will be cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death. These individuals will die twice as humans. There is no recovery from the second death. It is eternal! They do not suffer in hell for eternity. Their death is eternal, not their act of dying! They are gone, dust, erased, nada, gone bye-bye, etc. So these will die twice.�

Nothing in scripture makes any suggestion that the resurrection is physical in nature; this is all assumed and not based on scripture. Plus you say all who are dead in Adam will be resurrected but then you turn around and destroy them in the lake of Fire which is a spiritual fire not physical. Why would God resurrect the unjust to destroy them. Man does not have a freewill to believe now, in the past or in the future.

The resurrection which we now await is for all dead Christians who will be resurrected at the Second Coming. This will be the first mass resurrection for mankind. It is described in Revelation:

NO "SECOND COMING"!

The Bible nowhere speaks of the "second coming" of Christ. Interesting, isn't it - how some of the major and most commonly accepted doctrines of professing Christianity cannot be found in the Bible? There is no mention whatever the "second coming"

The Lord's people should purge their conversation, purify their terminology, and remove from their consciousness the multitude of non-scriptural and extra-biblical expressions carried over from Mystery Babylon. We have both parroted and coined a great many unscriptural terms that have been so misleading and have led us astray in our understanding of the scriptures and the wonderful plan of God.

And this term - "the second coming of Christ" - is not scriptural, either, and cannot be found anywhere in the Bible; yet it has influenced the thinking and teaching of most Christians to accept and believe concepts that simply are not true. We have been so confused in our thinking that everything in the scriptures pertaining to the coming of the Lord, His appearing, His manifestation have to fit into His coming as a man two milleniums ago, or to His so-called "second coming" when every eye shall see Him. This is wrong. Very wrong.
The second coming of Christ is not a biblical phrase. It has no scriptural warrant.

These texts, and many others, all include the English word "coming." But the preachers, when preaching from these texts, always ADD the word "second" to each one, and proceed to preach on "the second coming of Christ"! They invariably add the word "second" to every "coming" in the New Testament, and then add the "second coming of Christ" to nearly every chapter in the Bible - even in the Old Testament. Adding "second" to the word "coming" does violence to the meaning every time. Jesus did not say, "the second coming of the Son of man." James did not say, "Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the second coming of the Lord." Peter did not ask, "Where is the promise of His second coming?" Paul did not say, "Then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall ... destroy with the brightness of His second coming." There is no justification whatever for adding "second" to any of these inspired passages. I have all the confidence in the world that the Holy Spirit inspired them to be written exactly as they should be written - without the word second! You will have to rewrite the entire New Testament to support the doctrine of the "second coming" of the Lord. The "second coming" is not a biblical expression and first occurred among Christians as late as the middle of the second century after Christ. I can not emphasize too strongly that the word "second" is NEVER used in Holy Writ with the word "coming." That is the simple and plain and incontrovertible truth, and this fact is elementary and basic to a correct understanding of the coming of the Lord!

[Benoni]

If all (believers and nonbelievers) will be resurrected, and only the dead believers are resurrected at what is called the "first resurrection," then there has to be another resurrection for the others which are nonbelievers

This is assumed but is not what scripture is saying; I see you did not address my post so here it is again please read carefully: The dead believers are the overcomers who already went thought the second death process. Not the first death for as you posted in 1 Corin. 15 all died in Adam.

In His great victory over the power of Satan He was a sign that pointed unerringly to another company of overcoming sons. In all the churches of Revelation there were two classes of people — those who were overcomers and those who were not.

It is to the overcomers that the glorious promises are given, for they follow the Lamb whithersoever He goeth, have partaken of His mind and of His will, and thus are equipped to reign in His kingdom.

Thus to them it is said: "To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev. 2:7.

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev. 2:11.

The second death is not negative it is awesome;it is second death overcoming the first death; notice the overcomer was not hurt by the second death; if it was so bad how come they were not hurt?


"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Rev. 2:17.

"He that overcometh and keepeth My works to the end, to him will I give/wnw over the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessel of the potter shall they be broken to shivers even as I received of My Father, and I will give him the morning star." Rev. 2:26-28.

"He that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God and he shall go no more out and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God which cometh down out of heaven from my God and I will write upon him my new name." Rev. 3:12, 13.

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with Me in My throne even as I overcame and am set down with My Father in His throne." Rev. 3:21. "He that hath an ear let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."


Here again in Revelation 20:6 God’s Word not my opinion declares “he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ�

Notice who the overcomer is I just posted a whole bunch of scriptures that tell us what God is doing with the overcomers not “the multitude before the throne which are all the believers who are not overcomers.



God's Word is not talking about every Christian here He is speaking of the Overcomer, who God will use as Kings and Priest for the remainder of all heathen people (Acts 15:14-18)


All are heir to salvation does not make you the elect or an overcomer.



Rev. 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Rev. 3: 21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne. 22He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.


BIG DIFFERENCE.....

Later God will use the overcomer in the second resurrection for all the unjust. Acts 15:14-18.

[Benoni]

If so, then what might the next sequential resurrection after the first be called

It is called the Tabernacle of David.

What you are totally missing is the Priesthood of God for the remainder of all heathen people. Why God would makes his overcomers Kings and Priest if there was no one to minister to. Notice all the below verses are in reference to Mt Zion (the heavenly throne)

Revelations 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

Obadiah 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion (the high places of Ruleship in the kingdom) to judge the mount of Esau (Flesh); and the kingdom shall be the LORD's.


Acts 15:16-18

16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up:

17 That the residue (remainder) of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.





Romans 5:18-20 (Weymouth’s)
It follows then just as the result of a single transgression is a condemnation which to the whole race, so also is the result of a single degree of righteousness is a life giving acquittal which extends to the whole race. (19) for as thought the disobedience of one individual the mass of mankind were constituted as sinners, so also though the obedience of one, the mass of mankind will be constituted righteous. Now law was brought in later on so that the transgression might increase, but sin increased, grace is overflowed.