JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[brianbbs67]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

[shnarkle]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

Quite true. This is why those who believe that the law is done away with have created a doctrine that negates the need for a savior. It's completely incoherent.

What they will do is point to all the passages that explicitly deal with the sacrificial system or the debate between Paul and the legalists of his day as proof that they no longer need to keep the commandments as well. The proof is in the fact that they don't observe the Sabbath, dietary laws, and the laws of usury. This is just scratching the surface as further investigation reveals that they really don't follow any of the commandments in theory, practice or principle.

[polonius]

[shnarkle]

[brianbbs67]

[Elijah John]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

Did Cain sin when he killed Abel? There was no law against murder in those days. But still, Cain violated the will of God. That was sin.

Isn't the Law then simply the codified expression of the will of God?

Paul seems to contradict himself then. In the beginning of Romans, he says that people intuitively knew the will of God, what is right and what is wrong. Or words to that effect.

[shnarkle]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

Did Cain sin when he killed Abel? There was no law against murder in those days. But still, Cain violated the will of God. That was sin.

The only reason God had to give the law at Sinai was because they had forgotten it. This is why it was codified. This is explicitly stated when he rebukes them for ignoring his laws in Egypt. God tells them not to follow after the ways of their fathers, but instead to keep his laws which he's just codified for their convenience and edification. Cain knew he had transgressed Gods' law, or he wouldn't have been so rebellious and defensive in his response to God.

Isn't the Law then simply the codified expression of the will of God?

Paul seems to contradict himself then. In the beginning of Romans, he says that people intuitively knew the will of God, what is right and what is wrong. Or words to that effect.

I don't see any contradiction. Intuitively knowing God's law doesn't contradict God's law unless one ignores God's law.

[ttruscott]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

I know that many Christians accept that breaking the law is the nature of sin but I think it is a myth since it contradicts scripture about why the law was given:

First: 1 Timothy 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient... This implies that sinners /sin came before the law, the law does not create evil people.

Second: Why is the law given then? Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of (ie convicted of) our sin. This also implies that sin came before the law...as no righteous need be so convicted.

If this argument accepted then the question, "Why were Adam and Eve put under the command not to eat if they were innocent / righteous?" opens a new world of theology for us.

[shnarkle]

[brianbbs67]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

I know that many Christians accept that breaking the law is the nature of sin but I think it is a myth since it contradicts scripture about why the law was given:

First: 1 Timothy 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient... This implies that sinners /sin came before the law, the law does not create evil people.

Second: Why is the law given then? Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of (ie convicted of) our sin. This also implies that sin came before the law...as no righteous need be so convicted.

If this argument accepted then the question, "Why were Adam and Eve put under the command not to eat if they were innocent / righteous?" opens a new world of theology for us.

One, He is God. He knew we would forget and break His instructions if left to our own devices. Which we were thanks to Adam and Cain. But, really some one would have done it, eventually, anyway. He wanted us to learn to be wise, by ourselves with His input, like any good parent.

2, the law is given for our benefit. As following it makes us good people, worthy of God's presence .

The Command, "don't eat of this tree" is Adamic law. If you are innocent and unexperienced and then dropped in a situation where you can choose anything you want, you will choose poorly, sometimes. Thus, direction to some degree must be given. Do you have children? These are wonderfull examples of this. "Don't touch the stove, it is hot" "you will be burned". Well, I am here to tell you, one of your kids will touch the stove....it is our nature, especially when new or young. God knew this and forbade as little as He could , in my opinion. The dietary restrictions seem to be of this same vein also. For our benefit.

As has been stated earlier, if the culprits(Adam, Eve, Cain), thought they did no wrong, why did they hide and evade? They must have known they did. Just like we all know we have wronged a person or people or any other thing when we have done it. It is written in our hearts, now, forever.