JW organization.

[Elijah John]

Jehovah's Witnesses are not allowed to:

-vote
-celebrate birthdays
-celebrate Christmas or Easter
-donate or receive blood transfusions.

And if any JW openly persists in doing these things[edit to add publicly], they will be shunned or disfellowshipped, [edit to add or otherwise admonished or disciplined.]

For debate,

1) what do any of these check-list prohibitions have to do with Christianity?

2) And are any of these prohibitions compatible with the idea of Christian freedom?

3) Are these prohibitions arbitrary or legalistic?

4) And could Jehvoah's Witness as an organization flourish without these particular prohibitions and still honor God?

Please address any or all of the above.

[brianbbs67]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

[shnarkle]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

Quite true. This is why those who believe that the law is done away with have created a doctrine that negates the need for a savior. It's completely incoherent.

What they will do is point to all the passages that explicitly deal with the sacrificial system or the debate between Paul and the legalists of his day as proof that they no longer need to keep the commandments as well. The proof is in the fact that they don't observe the Sabbath, dietary laws, and the laws of usury. This is just scratching the surface as further investigation reveals that they really don't follow any of the commandments in theory, practice or principle.

[polonius]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

Quite true. This is why those who believe that the law is done away with have created a doctrine that negates the need for a savior. It's completely incoherent.

What they will do is point to all the passages that explicitly deal with the sacrificial system or the debate between Paul and the legalists of his day as proof that they no longer need to keep the commandments as well. The proof is in the fact that they don't observe the Sabbath, dietary laws, and the laws of usury. This is just scratching the surface as further investigation reveals that they really don't follow any of the commandments in theory, practice or principle.

RESPONSE:

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished� (Matthew 5:17-18).

Was Jesus wrong then?

[shnarkle]

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished� (Matthew 5:17-18).

Was Jesus wrong then?

There is nothing inconsistent in the quoted statement you provided. Have heaven and earth disappeared? No, of course not, therefore not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen will by any means disappear from the Law. Fullfilling the law therefore doesn't accomplish everything. Everything hasn't been accomplshed yet. The faulty logic is based upon the false assumption that somehow fulfilling the law abolishes the law. It doesn't, and you've failed to supply any arguments to support that false assumption.

The only thing that is explicitly accomplished is the fact that Christ is what the sacrificial system pointed to. Therefore THAT is what is fulfilled; and that alone. The Epistles show a law that is to be observed by Christians which is based on the Ten Commandments and laws which are abolished because of Christ's death. The following scriptures prove this point.

• Acts 22:12 - Ananias was a Christian (Acts 9:10-14) but was described as a devout man according to the Law and having a good report of Jews in Damascus. Could this be possible if he did not keep the Ten Commandments?

Romans 2:12,13, 16, 21, 22 - All Men, both Jews and Gentiles, are required to obey the Law. Gentiles will perish without it and Jews who have it will be judged according to how they treated it. This is according to the Gospel (vs. 16). The Law which Paul is referring to is based on the Ten Commandments (vs. 21, 22).

Romans 3:20 - "...for by the Law is the knowledge of sin."
Romans 7:7 - Paul would not have known sin but by the Law. The law which says, "Thou shall not covet", is of the Ten Commandments. Hence, Paul is clearly saying the law based on the Ten Commandments is used by the Christian to identify what is sin.
Romans 7:12,14 - The Law and the commandment referred to above is called holy, just and good and also spiritual.
Romans 7:25 - Paul serves the Law of God.
Serve - DOULEUO (GRK.) - to be subject and serve in subjection.

• Romans 8:4 - The righteousness of the Law will be fulfilled in those who walk after the Spirit. The righteousness of the Law includes the Ten Commandments.
Romans 8:7 - The person who is carnal, i.e. the opposite of spiritual, will not be subject to the Law of God. This means that someone who is spiritual must be subject to the Law of God.
Subject - HUPOTASSO (GRK.) - to subordinate, to obey. Paul had said before that the Law is spiritual. (Romans 7:14)

• Romans 13:8-10 - No man can love properly unless he had fulfilled the Law. The Law defines love (Matthew 22:36-40). No one can claim to love according to their own standard and say this is fulfilling the Law. It is only when the Law is fulfilled or done completely that we can say we have love. It is clear that the Law being referred to here is based on the Ten Commandments (vs. 9).

• I Corinthians 7:19 - Paul emphasizes that circumcision is not important for the Christian but keeping the commandments of God is. This is supported by Romans 2: 26 and Galatians 5:6. Was circumcision a part of the Old Covenant? Yes. So, which commandments are to be now kept by Christians? (See Matthew 19:16-19).

II Corinthians 3:1-3 - This passage implies that what was written on the tables of stone, i.e. the Ten Commandments are now to be in the table of our hearts. As the Corinthian's lives show them to be of Christ. Notice, that which was written with ink is now accomplished by the Spirit of God or by faith while that on stones must be in the heart to be manifested in their way of life. (See also Hebrews 8:10)

• Galatians 5:1-6 - Again, Paul states that circumcision is not for the Christian but rather "faith which worketh by love" (vs. 6) but; what is love? Romans 13:8-10; I John 5:3; shows that this involves the keeping of the Ten Commandments.

• Galatians 5:22-23 - The fruit of the Spirit conforms to a particular law i.e. there is no law against it. This implies that there is a law which is against the works of the flesh which is the opposite of the fruit of the Spirit. Which law is this? (See GaIatians5: 19-21).

• I Corinthians 9:20-21 - Paul admitted to doing things which would cause him to be identified with Jews who still observed the Old Covenant. (i.e. under the Law, vs. 20). (See Acts 21:21-26; 16:1-3). With Gentiles he did not behave that way however, as he could ignore those things which are no longer relevant because of Christ's death. He was not completely without law as he was "Not without Law to God, but under the Law to Christ." (vs. 21) He is not under the Law of Christ but under the Law to Christ. This ultimately means, he keeps a part of the Law but faith in Christ has replaced another part. (See Galatians5:l- 6; I Corinthians 7:19; Hebrews 9:15).

• I Timothy 1:8-11 - This passage continues Paul's teaching about the proper use of the Law in the New Covenant. It is often misunderstood by lawbreakers as they quote a part of the passage and say, "The Law is not made for the righteous man." They ignore "But we know that the Law is good if a man use it lawfully." Paul in this passage describes breakers of the Ten Commandments and in the same order as they were given in Exodus 20:1-16. He says these actions were "contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel..." (I Timothy 1:10-11). Hence, the Ten Commandments is used in the New Covenant to identify sin and sinners. The Ten Commandments must be observed by those who have believed the gospel. If they do, then the urgings of this Law would no longer be against them as they would be among the righteous, but it would be against those who are sinners and would signal to the righteous when he is straying. This is the lawful use of the Law(Romans 3:20; 7:7; I John 3:4).

• Hebrews 8:8,10; 10:16 - These passages clearly state that the Law is a part of the New Covenant. The Law is to be placed in our hearts. God is the one who does this. Note also that the New Covenant is made with Israel, not with Gentiles. Gentiles are grafted in to learn the ways of Israel in order to be a part of the Covenant and be the people of God.(Romans 11: 17-25; Jeremiah 12:14-17; Isaiah 56:1-8). The Law is very much a part of the New Covenant and the Ten Commandments are the basis of this Law ( Romans 2:21-22; 7:7; 13:8-10).

• James 2:8-13 - James is writing to those who have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. He is writing about what Christian conduct should be like. He addresses the subject of partiality in chapter 2 and appeals to the Law as that which shows when a transgression has occurred. (James 2:1-4, 8, 9). Convinced - ELENCHO (GRK.) - to convict, to admonish. It is clear that the Royal Law refers to the Ten Commandments. (See Romans 13:9). The believer in Christ is encouraged to keep this law and is also warned that he will be judged by the Law of Liberty. Which law is this? It is clearly a reference to the Ten Commandments. (See James 2:11-12; Romans 2:12,17-22).

The Christian is expected to keep the whole law. (See James 2:10). This whole law cannot include sacrifices and offerings nor circumcision, as we have seen before that Christians are not required to observe these. Hence, this whole law is not a reference to the entire Old Covenant but refers to what is called the Royal Law and the Law of Liberty. This must include the Ten Commandments and is summarized as God's desire to teach us how to love. The commands outside of the Ten Commandments like James 2:9 and Leviticus 19:15 are explanations and expansions which show the depth of how we should love and hence show the depth of the Ten Commandments.
• I John 3:4 - This is a most profound statement. It clearly states that sin is the transgression of the Law. The Christian is not expected to sin but is expected to obey God's Law. The trend of John's reasoning shows that this is a reference to the Ten Commandments. The action of Cain is shown to be one of a sinner and this is because he disobeyed, "Thou shalt not kill" (I John 3:12). To "love one another" is a clear reference to the Ten Commandments. (See Romans 13:9).

II Timothy 3:15-17 - Timothy is told by Paul that he knew the Holy Scriptures from a child. This could not be, what we call, the New Testament or the Greek Scriptures, but are the Law and Prophets. When Paul wrote to Timothy, many of the books comprising the Greek Scriptures were not yet written and they were not organized or compiled as we have them today. Hence, Paul is telling Timothy to use the Law and the Prophets for Christian doctrine, for reproof, for instruction in righteousness and that this will make him perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Unlike many today, Paul is clearly saying the Law and Prophets are needed to make us perfect as Christians. This is because it contains the basis of Christian living i.e. the Ten Commandments, its expansions and explanations. It contains the Law which is to be in our hearts. (Hebrews 8:10).

• James 1:25 - As the Law and Prophets are used to make us perfect as was seen in I Timothy3:15- 17. It is also shown by James that the Law which is to be observed is called perfect. We have shown previously that the Law of Liberty statement is a reference to the Ten Commandments and its expansion and explanations. (James 2:11-12).

From the above, it is clear that Christianity is associated with a law which is holy, just and good, spiritual, which shows what is sin, should be fulfilled in us, Christians should be subject to, shows what is love, should be in our hearts, is of liberty, makes perfect, is perfect and will judge all persons including Christians. It is clearly seen that the Ten Commandments is the basis of this Law which can be summarized as love (Romans 13:9).

[brianbbs67]

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished� (Matthew 5:17-18).

Was Jesus wrong then?

There is nothing inconsistent in the quoted statement you provided. Have heaven and earth disappeared? No, of course not, therefore not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen will by any means disappear from the Law. Fullfilling the law therefore doesn't accomplish everything. Everything hasn't been accomplshed yet. The faulty logic is based upon the false assumption that somehow fulfilling the law abolishes the law. It doesn't, and you've failed to supply any arguments to support that false assumption.

The only thing that is explicitly accomplished is the fact that Christ is what the sacrificial system pointed to. Therefore THAT is what is fulfilled; and that alone. The Epistles show a law that is to be observed by Christians which is based on the Ten Commandments and laws which are abolished because of Christ's death. The following scriptures prove this point.

• Acts 22:12 - Ananias was a Christian (Acts 9:10-14) but was described as a devout man according to the Law and having a good report of Jews in Damascus. Could this be possible if he did not keep the Ten Commandments?

Romans 2:12,13, 16, 21, 22 - All Men, both Jews and Gentiles, are required to obey the Law. Gentiles will perish without it and Jews who have it will be judged according to how they treated it. This is according to the Gospel (vs. 16). The Law which Paul is referring to is based on the Ten Commandments (vs. 21, 22).

Romans 3:20 - "...for by the Law is the knowledge of sin."
Romans 7:7 - Paul would not have known sin but by the Law. The law which says, "Thou shall not covet", is of the Ten Commandments. Hence, Paul is clearly saying the law based on the Ten Commandments is used by the Christian to identify what is sin.
Romans 7:12,14 - The Law and the commandment referred to above is called holy, just and good and also spiritual.
Romans 7:25 - Paul serves the Law of God.
Serve - DOULEUO (GRK.) - to be subject and serve in subjection.

• Romans 8:4 - The righteousness of the Law will be fulfilled in those who walk after the Spirit. The righteousness of the Law includes the Ten Commandments.
Romans 8:7 - The person who is carnal, i.e. the opposite of spiritual, will not be subject to the Law of God. This means that someone who is spiritual must be subject to the Law of God.
Subject - HUPOTASSO (GRK.) - to subordinate, to obey. Paul had said before that the Law is spiritual. (Romans 7:14)

• Romans 13:8-10 - No man can love properly unless he had fulfilled the Law. The Law defines love (Matthew 22:36-40). No one can claim to love according to their own standard and say this is fulfilling the Law. It is only when the Law is fulfilled or done completely that we can say we have love. It is clear that the Law being referred to here is based on the Ten Commandments (vs. 9).

• I Corinthians 7:19 - Paul emphasizes that circumcision is not important for the Christian but keeping the commandments of God is. This is supported by Romans 2: 26 and Galatians 5:6. Was circumcision a part of the Old Covenant? Yes. So, which commandments are to be now kept by Christians? (See Matthew 19:16-19).

II Corinthians 3:1-3 - This passage implies that what was written on the tables of stone, i.e. the Ten Commandments are now to be in the table of our hearts. As the Corinthian's lives show them to be of Christ. Notice, that which was written with ink is now accomplished by the Spirit of God or by faith while that on stones must be in the heart to be manifested in their way of life. (See also Hebrews 8:10)

• Galatians 5:1-6 - Again, Paul states that circumcision is not for the Christian but rather "faith which worketh by love" (vs. 6) but; what is love? Romans 13:8-10; I John 5:3; shows that this involves the keeping of the Ten Commandments.

• Galatians 5:22-23 - The fruit of the Spirit conforms to a particular law i.e. there is no law against it. This implies that there is a law which is against the works of the flesh which is the opposite of the fruit of the Spirit. Which law is this? (See GaIatians5: 19-21).

• I Corinthians 9:20-21 - Paul admitted to doing things which would cause him to be identified with Jews who still observed the Old Covenant. (i.e. under the Law, vs. 20). (See Acts 21:21-26; 16:1-3). With Gentiles he did not behave that way however, as he could ignore those things which are no longer relevant because of Christ's death. He was not completely without law as he was "Not without Law to God, but under the Law to Christ." (vs. 21) He is not under the Law of Christ but under the Law to Christ. This ultimately means, he keeps a part of the Law but faith in Christ has replaced another part. (See Galatians5:l- 6; I Corinthians 7:19; Hebrews 9:15).

• I Timothy 1:8-11 - This passage continues Paul's teaching about the proper use of the Law in the New Covenant. It is often misunderstood by lawbreakers as they quote a part of the passage and say, "The Law is not made for the righteous man." They ignore "But we know that the Law is good if a man use it lawfully." Paul in this passage describes breakers of the Ten Commandments and in the same order as they were given in Exodus 20:1-16. He says these actions were "contrary to sound doctrine; according to the glorious gospel..." (I Timothy 1:10-11). Hence, the Ten Commandments is used in the New Covenant to identify sin and sinners. The Ten Commandments must be observed by those who have believed the gospel. If they do, then the urgings of this Law would no longer be against them as they would be among the righteous, but it would be against those who are sinners and would signal to the righteous when he is straying. This is the lawful use of the Law(Romans 3:20; 7:7; I John 3:4).

• Hebrews 8:8,10; 10:16 - These passages clearly state that the Law is a part of the New Covenant. The Law is to be placed in our hearts. God is the one who does this. Note also that the New Covenant is made with Israel, not with Gentiles. Gentiles are grafted in to learn the ways of Israel in order to be a part of the Covenant and be the people of God.(Romans 11: 17-25; Jeremiah 12:14-17; Isaiah 56:1-8). The Law is very much a part of the New Covenant and the Ten Commandments are the basis of this Law ( Romans 2:21-22; 7:7; 13:8-10).

• James 2:8-13 - James is writing to those who have believed in the Lord Jesus Christ. He is writing about what Christian conduct should be like. He addresses the subject of partiality in chapter 2 and appeals to the Law as that which shows when a transgression has occurred. (James 2:1-4, 8, 9). Convinced - ELENCHO (GRK.) - to convict, to admonish. It is clear that the Royal Law refers to the Ten Commandments. (See Romans 13:9). The believer in Christ is encouraged to keep this law and is also warned that he will be judged by the Law of Liberty. Which law is this? It is clearly a reference to the Ten Commandments. (See James 2:11-12; Romans 2:12,17-22).

The Christian is expected to keep the whole law. (See James 2:10). This whole law cannot include sacrifices and offerings nor circumcision, as we have seen before that Christians are not required to observe these. Hence, this whole law is not a reference to the entire Old Covenant but refers to what is called the Royal Law and the Law of Liberty. This must include the Ten Commandments and is summarized as God's desire to teach us how to love. The commands outside of the Ten Commandments like James 2:9 and Leviticus 19:15 are explanations and expansions which show the depth of how we should love and hence show the depth of the Ten Commandments.
• I John 3:4 - This is a most profound statement. It clearly states that sin is the transgression of the Law. The Christian is not expected to sin but is expected to obey God's Law. The trend of John's reasoning shows that this is a reference to the Ten Commandments. The action of Cain is shown to be one of a sinner and this is because he disobeyed, "Thou shalt not kill" (I John 3:12). To "love one another" is a clear reference to the Ten Commandments. (See Romans 13:9).

II Timothy 3:15-17 - Timothy is told by Paul that he knew the Holy Scriptures from a child. This could not be, what we call, the New Testament or the Greek Scriptures, but are the Law and Prophets. When Paul wrote to Timothy, many of the books comprising the Greek Scriptures were not yet written and they were not organized or compiled as we have them today. Hence, Paul is telling Timothy to use the Law and the Prophets for Christian doctrine, for reproof, for instruction in righteousness and that this will make him perfect and thoroughly furnished unto all good works. Unlike many today, Paul is clearly saying the Law and Prophets are needed to make us perfect as Christians. This is because it contains the basis of Christian living i.e. the Ten Commandments, its expansions and explanations. It contains the Law which is to be in our hearts. (Hebrews 8:10).

• James 1:25 - As the Law and Prophets are used to make us perfect as was seen in I Timothy3:15- 17. It is also shown by James that the Law which is to be observed is called perfect. We have shown previously that the Law of Liberty statement is a reference to the Ten Commandments and its expansion and explanations. (James 2:11-12).

From the above, it is clear that Christianity is associated with a law which is holy, just and good, spiritual, which shows what is sin, should be fulfilled in us, Christians should be subject to, shows what is love, should be in our hearts, is of liberty, makes perfect, is perfect and will judge all persons including Christians. It is clearly seen that the Ten Commandments is the basis of this Law which can be summarized as love (Romans 13:9).

Very good rebuttal of the law. I have saved it.

[Elijah John]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

Did Cain sin when he killed Abel? There was no law against murder in those days. But still, Cain violated the will of God. That was sin.

Isn't the Law then simply the codified expression of the will of God?

Paul seems to contradict himself then. In the beginning of Romans, he says that people intuitively knew the will of God, what is right and what is wrong. Or words to that effect.

[shnarkle]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

Did Cain sin when he killed Abel? There was no law against murder in those days. But still, Cain violated the will of God. That was sin.

The only reason God had to give the law at Sinai was because they had forgotten it. This is why it was codified. This is explicitly stated when he rebukes them for ignoring his laws in Egypt. God tells them not to follow after the ways of their fathers, but instead to keep his laws which he's just codified for their convenience and edification. Cain knew he had transgressed Gods' law, or he wouldn't have been so rebellious and defensive in his response to God.

Isn't the Law then simply the codified expression of the will of God?

Paul seems to contradict himself then. In the beginning of Romans, he says that people intuitively knew the will of God, what is right and what is wrong. Or words to that effect.

I don't see any contradiction. Intuitively knowing God's law doesn't contradict God's law unless one ignores God's law.

[ttruscott]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

I know that many Christians accept that breaking the law is the nature of sin but I think it is a myth since it contradicts scripture about why the law was given:

First: 1 Timothy 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient... This implies that sinners /sin came before the law, the law does not create evil people.

Second: Why is the law given then? Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of (ie convicted of) our sin. This also implies that sin came before the law...as no righteous need be so convicted.

If this argument accepted then the question, "Why were Adam and Eve put under the command not to eat if they were innocent / righteous?" opens a new world of theology for us.

[shnarkle]

I know that many Christians accept that breaking the law is the nature of sin

Breaking the law is the biblical definition of sin; " 1 John 3:4: “Sin is the transgression of the law�

One can't transgress a law that doesn't exist in the first place. Therefore the law must first exist for sin to exist. As Paul says, "For where there is no law, there is no transgression" Rom. 11:15 Sin, by definition can't exist prior to the law. One can't transgress a law that doesn't exist in the first place.

First: 1 Timothy 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully,

To use the law lawfully is to obey the law. It is good to love God and love one's neighbor as yourself.

understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient... This implies that sinners /sin came before the law, the law does not create evil people.

The text never implies that the law creates evil people. It spotlights that the disobedient are made aware that they are disobedient through the law. This doesn't negate the fact that one can forget what is right and wrong. Israel in the desert is a prime example of a people who forgot the law which prompted God to remind them of his law by codifying it for them.

Second: Why is the law given then?

So they won't forget it again. The law is synonymous with God's will which is life itself. "the man which does these things shall live by them" Romans 10:5

Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of (ie convicted of) our sin. This also implies that sin came before the law...as no righteous need be so convicted.

Only God makes anyone righteous or holy. Israel was called to be a holy nation (Exodus 19:6) It is God who sanctifies them, not the other way around. A holy people will consequently manifest God's righteous will. Paul is pointing out that sinful people cannot be justified by their righteous works. The tell tale sign that they're not righteous is that they're attempting to justify themselves by their works. The difference should be obvious. In both cases we have people manifesting rightoues works, but only those who are made righteous by God are actually righteous.

This is what is meant by the "new creature in Christ". They are created righteous and holy. This is the only way anyone can be made righteous or holy. One cannot make themselves holy or righteous. No amount of will or effort (Romans 9:16) can turn wolves into sheep or tares into wheat. They were created that way. Wolves don't get lost, only sheep can become lost or found.

[brianbbs67]

Paul also emphasized that the law taught him what sin is. As has been stated, sin=breaking law. There is no sin if there is no law. That is how it is defined.

I know that many Christians accept that breaking the law is the nature of sin but I think it is a myth since it contradicts scripture about why the law was given:

First: 1 Timothy 1:8 Now we know that the law is good, if one uses it lawfully, understanding this, that the law is not laid down for the just but for the lawless and disobedient... This implies that sinners /sin came before the law, the law does not create evil people.

Second: Why is the law given then? Romans 3:20 Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God's sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of (ie convicted of) our sin. This also implies that sin came before the law...as no righteous need be so convicted.

If this argument accepted then the question, "Why were Adam and Eve put under the command not to eat if they were innocent / righteous?" opens a new world of theology for us.

One, He is God. He knew we would forget and break His instructions if left to our own devices. Which we were thanks to Adam and Cain. But, really some one would have done it, eventually, anyway. He wanted us to learn to be wise, by ourselves with His input, like any good parent.

2, the law is given for our benefit. As following it makes us good people, worthy of God's presence .

The Command, "don't eat of this tree" is Adamic law. If you are innocent and unexperienced and then dropped in a situation where you can choose anything you want, you will choose poorly, sometimes. Thus, direction to some degree must be given. Do you have children? These are wonderfull examples of this. "Don't touch the stove, it is hot" "you will be burned". Well, I am here to tell you, one of your kids will touch the stove....it is our nature, especially when new or young. God knew this and forbade as little as He could , in my opinion. The dietary restrictions seem to be of this same vein also. For our benefit.

As has been stated earlier, if the culprits(Adam, Eve, Cain), thought they did no wrong, why did they hide and evade? They must have known they did. Just like we all know we have wronged a person or people or any other thing when we have done it. It is written in our hearts, now, forever.