God has a god.

[Checkpoint]

Scriptures tell us that God the Father is the God of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Anyone who has a god is not, by definition, God.

Therefore, Jesus Christ is not the one true God.

God the Father has no god.

He is therefore, by definition, God Himself, the only true God.

What say you?

Relevant scriptures

Psalm 45:7;Hebrews 1:9

You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
by anointing you with the oil of joy.

John 17:3

Now this is eternal life: that they know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Mark 15:34

And at three in the afternoon Jesus cried out in a loud voice, "Eloi, Eloi, lema
sabachthani?" (which means "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

John 20:17

Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'"

2 Corinthians 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort,

Ephesians 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly realms.

Colossians 1:3

We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you,

1 Peter 1:3

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! By His great mercy, He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

[Pipiripi]

Read the book of John

The same book of John has Jesus defining the Father as the only true God (John 17.3), and also indicates (as has already been pointed out) that Jesus has a God.

Jesus is not a create human being or a spiritual person. Jesus came forth out of the father who is God. Hebrews 1:1-14. Read verse 6. And if the angels who never has sin adore Jesus. And what about we human that the one who has died for us? God said so!! Or you obey God or you keep following men's traditions.

The Scriptures indicate that Jesus was created. He was the very first thing that God created. Before anything else in the universe.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation." (Colossians 1:15)


Jesus said that he came from the Father, and the Father (God) is a Spirit (John 4:24). Paul's letter to the Philippians says that Jesus was "in the form of God," so we have affirmation that Jesus was in God's form, which was SPIRIT. (Phil.2:6)

Hebrews 1:8 should be translated, "With reference to the Son: God is your throne forever and ever...," meaning that Jesus' power and authority to be King on his heavenly throne comes from God. That has to be the translation of it, because verse 9 says that the Son has a God.

"You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, YOUR GOD, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your partners." (Heb.1:9)


We fully accept Jesus as our Redeemer and our King. We just don't believe that he is God. He said that he has a God and it is his Father. (John 20:17)

What is the different between coming FORTH of CREATE? What means the word only BEGOTTEN? JOHN 3:16. AND CALL SON!! When God was creating things Jesus was with Him my friends.

Yes, WE AGREE ON THAT, friend.

I have explained the word "begotten" at least twice here. I should put a bookmark in my dictionary. Begotten means: procreated of a father; given rise to; caused.

This certainly lends itself to the understanding that Jesus, the "only-BEGOTTEN" Son, was created. He was the ONLY begotten because he was the first thing ever created, and by the Father alone. Everything else was created THROUGH JESUS.

I understand you, but the word create don't count by Jesus. Remember given birth to a baby is not making a baby. If we used the word creation by Jesus is like a hand make. I hope you have understand what I mean my friend.

Do you always talk to your friends in a condescending way, friend?

Why wouldn't the word "create" apply to Jesus if the Bible says he was begotten? You said you understood that. Then you say that the Bible isn't telling it accurately, right? Jesus really isn't "begotten?" Is that what you are saying?

God did not "give birth" to Jesus, He caused him to come into existence. Similarly to when He made Adam out of the dust of the ground. Only He didn't use dust with Jesus. God can make things out of nothing.

What I am saying my friend is this.

"It is true that there are many sons of God, but Christ is the 'ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.' And therefore the Son of God in a sense in which no other being ever was or ever can be. The angels are sons of God, as was Adam (Job 38:7; Luke 3:38), by creation; Christian are the sonof God by adoption (Rom. 8:14,15), but Christ is the Son of God by BIRTH. The writer to the Hebrews further show that the position of the Son of God is not one to which Christ has been elevated but that is one which He has by right."( E.J. Waggoner, Christ and His Righteousness, page 12, 1890).

"God so loved the world, that He gave his only-begotten Son,--not a son by CREATION, as were the angels, not a son by adoption as is the forgiven sinner, but a SON BEGOTTEN in the express image of the Father's person." (Ellen G. White. Signs of the Times, May 30, 1895)

"The dedication of the FIRST BORN had his origen in the earliest times. God has promised to give the FIRST BORN OF HEAVEN TO save the summers."(E.G. White. Desire of Ages, page 51)

John 16:27,28....' For the Father himself loveth you, because you have loved me, and believed that I CAME OUT FROM GOD. I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER, and am coming in the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.'

I hope you have understand that Jesus is not created.

I see that you would rather listen to Ellen White rather than clear scriptures from the Bible. I have shown you what the Scriptures say, but you ignore them. You choose to cast aside the very definition of "begotten," even though I have re-posted it at least twice. We will have to agree to disagree.

My friend it is simple, if we don't go back into the future, not only Ellen W. But all, from the apostles till now. Did Jesus say that He is created? Do the apostles teached that Jesus is a creation? Go and search from WHERE the doctrine of trinity has his origen. Before you became an other denominations. If you was Catholic first, did you worship Mary? Why you don't worship Mary anymore? And also the dead saints? Let the Bible talk. If it isn't written in the Bible don't push it in. Believe what is written in the Bible.

[Pipiripi]

Read the book of John

The same book of John has Jesus defining the Father as the only true God (John 17.3), and also indicates (as has already been pointed out) that Jesus has a God.

If you have Jesus but not His Father who sent Him, then you have non. They cannot separated. They are one. Think and learn. JESUS has come to do what His Father told Him to do and say.

[onewithhim]

spirit when he was here. He was completely human, in fact, a perfect man.

It's probably wise to think that, since the Bible makes no mention whatsoever about Jesus having a family or even a wife, he didn't have any of that.

The bible has a habit of leaving information about wives out. Just look at many other bible stories. Women were often not considered important enough to mention. Jesus was probably as sexist as the next guy and figured his wife was just there to cook, clean etc and did not include her in his journeys.

We can't just assume that Jesus never had a wife or for that matter he didn't have ladies he visited in various towns.

When it comes down to it we have very little information about Jesus. We don't know much about him when he was a teenager and a young adult. What did he do before he started out on his mission? We have been given a few stories here and there about what he did, mainly in his 30s it seems, but we can't rule out the fact he might have had a wife or fathered a few children.

We also can't rule out the fact that information about his family may have been deliberately left out or edited out to made it look as though he was celibate so as to promote celibacy.

He knew that his mission on Earth was to represent YHWH, teach what YHWH told him to teach, and stay faithful and obedient to the end of his human life. He was interested only in carrying out his Father's will.

It's one thing to be only interested in carrying out the will of YHWH, but if he were totally human, then he had a human nature and that human nature comes with sexual urges.

Yes he was "tempted like all of us, but without sin." He proved that he could remain celebate and eschew any urges, and carry on with his Father's work.

"For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

[onewithhim]

Scriptures tell us that God the Father is the God of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Anyone who has a god is not, by definition, God.

Wait.
What?

the first thing you have done is begged the question. Who said that God cannot be God if He has one?

Therefore, Jesus Christ is not the one true God.

God the Father has no god.

He is therefore, by definition, God Himself, the only true God.

What say you?

I say that before you reach all those conclusions, you need to prove the premise.

Just use your brain please. "God" is the highest Person in the universe. He has no other individuals above Him. Therefore, it cannot be said that , if Jesus HAS a God that he IS God. If he has a God above him, he cannot BE God.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 1 by Checkpoint]

Scriptures tell us that God the Father is the God of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Anyone who has a god is not, by definition, God.

Therefore, Jesus Christ is not the one true God.

God the Father has no god.

He is therefore, by definition, God Himself, the only true God.

What say you?

What say you?

I say this is pretty poor logic and exegesis and the simplest stroll through an elementary textbook in logic, biblical exegesis, and theology, would answer the question.

Indeed. If God has no one above him and He is the most powerful, and He has been named by Jesus as being his God, then our logic tells us that since there is no one above the Father, there could be NO ONE above Him, and therefore, Jesus could not be "God." I can't imagine how a reasonable person could see it otherwise.

"The head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God." (I Corinth. 11:3)


Jesus is subordinate to God. He cannot BE God.

[onewithhim]

The same book of John has Jesus defining the Father as the only true God (John 17.3), and also indicates (as has already been pointed out) that Jesus has a God.

Jesus is not a create human being or a spiritual person. Jesus came forth out of the father who is God. Hebrews 1:1-14. Read verse 6. And if the angels who never has sin adore Jesus. And what about we human that the one who has died for us? God said so!! Or you obey God or you keep following men's traditions.

The Scriptures indicate that Jesus was created. He was the very first thing that God created. Before anything else in the universe.

"He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation." (Colossians 1:15)


Jesus said that he came from the Father, and the Father (God) is a Spirit (John 4:24). Paul's letter to the Philippians says that Jesus was "in the form of God," so we have affirmation that Jesus was in God's form, which was SPIRIT. (Phil.2:6)

Hebrews 1:8 should be translated, "With reference to the Son: God is your throne forever and ever...," meaning that Jesus' power and authority to be King on his heavenly throne comes from God. That has to be the translation of it, because verse 9 says that the Son has a God.

"You loved righteousness, and you hated lawlessness. That is why God, YOUR GOD, anointed you with the oil of exultation more than your partners." (Heb.1:9)


We fully accept Jesus as our Redeemer and our King. We just don't believe that he is God. He said that he has a God and it is his Father. (John 20:17)

What is the different between coming FORTH of CREATE? What means the word only BEGOTTEN? JOHN 3:16. AND CALL SON!! When God was creating things Jesus was with Him my friends.

Yes, WE AGREE ON THAT, friend.

I have explained the word "begotten" at least twice here. I should put a bookmark in my dictionary. Begotten means: procreated of a father; given rise to; caused.

This certainly lends itself to the understanding that Jesus, the "only-BEGOTTEN" Son, was created. He was the ONLY begotten because he was the first thing ever created, and by the Father alone. Everything else was created THROUGH JESUS.

I understand you, but the word create don't count by Jesus. Remember given birth to a baby is not making a baby. If we used the word creation by Jesus is like a hand make. I hope you have understand what I mean my friend.

Do you always talk to your friends in a condescending way, friend?

Why wouldn't the word "create" apply to Jesus if the Bible says he was begotten? You said you understood that. Then you say that the Bible isn't telling it accurately, right? Jesus really isn't "begotten?" Is that what you are saying?

God did not "give birth" to Jesus, He caused him to come into existence. Similarly to when He made Adam out of the dust of the ground. Only He didn't use dust with Jesus. God can make things out of nothing.

What I am saying my friend is this.

"It is true that there are many sons of God, but Christ is the 'ONLY BEGOTTEN SON OF GOD.' And therefore the Son of God in a sense in which no other being ever was or ever can be. The angels are sons of God, as was Adam (Job 38:7; Luke 3:38), by creation; Christian are the sonof God by adoption (Rom. 8:14,15), but Christ is the Son of God by BIRTH. The writer to the Hebrews further show that the position of the Son of God is not one to which Christ has been elevated but that is one which He has by right."( E.J. Waggoner, Christ and His Righteousness, page 12, 1890).

"God so loved the world, that He gave his only-begotten Son,--not a son by CREATION, as were the angels, not a son by adoption as is the forgiven sinner, but a SON BEGOTTEN in the express image of the Father's person." (Ellen G. White. Signs of the Times, May 30, 1895)

"The dedication of the FIRST BORN had his origen in the earliest times. God has promised to give the FIRST BORN OF HEAVEN TO save the summers."(E.G. White. Desire of Ages, page 51)

John 16:27,28....' For the Father himself loveth you, because you have loved me, and believed that I CAME OUT FROM GOD. I CAME FORTH FROM THE FATHER, and am coming in the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.'

I hope you have understand that Jesus is not created.

I see that you would rather listen to Ellen White rather than clear scriptures from the Bible. I have shown you what the Scriptures say, but you ignore them. You choose to cast aside the very definition of "begotten," even though I have re-posted it at least twice. We will have to agree to disagree.

My friend it is simple, if we don't go back into the future, not only Ellen W. But all, from the apostles till now. Did Jesus say that He is created? Do the apostles teached that Jesus is a creation? Go and search from WHERE the doctrine of trinity has his origen. Before you became an other denominations. If you was Catholic first, did you worship Mary? Why you don't worship Mary anymore? And also the dead saints? Let the Bible talk. If it isn't written in the Bible don't push it in. Believe what is written in the Bible.

Did you not notice that I quoted directly from the Bible? Jesus' disciple Paul stated that Jesus was the first-born of creation (Colossians 1:15). Then Jesus himself, speaking to the Apostle John, said that he was the "beginning of the creation" (Revelation 3:14).

You say to believe what is written in the Bible. Why don't you?

[onewithhim]

Read the book of John

The same book of John has Jesus defining the Father as the only true God (John 17.3), and also indicates (as has already been pointed out) that Jesus has a God.

If you have Jesus but not His Father who sent Him, then you have non. They cannot separated. They are one. Think and learn. JESUS has come to do what His Father told Him to do and say.

They COULD be separated if Jesus had failed to keep his integrity and had not obeyed his Father. Because he DID obey, he was given the highest position in the universe next to his Father, Jehovah. Jesus and Jehovah are "one" in that they are completely IN AGREEMENT. (John 17:20-23)

[OnceConvinced]

spirit when he was here. He was completely human, in fact, a perfect man.

It's probably wise to think that, since the Bible makes no mention whatsoever about Jesus having a family or even a wife, he didn't have any of that.

The bible has a habit of leaving information about wives out. Just look at many other bible stories. Women were often not considered important enough to mention. Jesus was probably as sexist as the next guy and figured his wife was just there to cook, clean etc and did not include her in his journeys.

We can't just assume that Jesus never had a wife or for that matter he didn't have ladies he visited in various towns.

When it comes down to it we have very little information about Jesus. We don't know much about him when he was a teenager and a young adult. What did he do before he started out on his mission? We have been given a few stories here and there about what he did, mainly in his 30s it seems, but we can't rule out the fact he might have had a wife or fathered a few children.

We also can't rule out the fact that information about his family may have been deliberately left out or edited out to made it look as though he was celibate so as to promote celibacy.

He knew that his mission on Earth was to represent YHWH, teach what YHWH told him to teach, and stay faithful and obedient to the end of his human life. He was interested only in carrying out his Father's will.

It's one thing to be only interested in carrying out the will of YHWH, but if he were totally human, then he had a human nature and that human nature comes with sexual urges.

Yes he was "tempted like all of us, but without sin." He proved that he could remain celebate and eschew any urges, and carry on with his Father's work.

"For we have as high priest, not one who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has been tested in all respects like ourselves, but without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

What's sinful about having a wife?

Where in the bible does it say Jesus had no children?

[dianaiad]

Scriptures tell us that God the Father is the God of His Son, Jesus Christ.

Anyone who has a god is not, by definition, God.

Wait.
What?

the first thing you have done is begged the question. Who said that God cannot be God if He has one?

Therefore, Jesus Christ is not the one true God.

God the Father has no god.

He is therefore, by definition, God Himself, the only true God.

What say you?

I say that before you reach all those conclusions, you need to prove the premise.

Just use your brain please. "God" is the highest Person in the universe. He has no other individuals above Him. Therefore, it cannot be said that , if Jesus HAS a God that he IS God. If he has a God above him, he cannot BE God.

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[otseng]

Think and learn.

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