Jesus is God - Every knee shall bow

[Wootah]

Isaiah 45
22 “Turn to me and be saved,
all you ends of the earth;
for I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn,
my mouth has uttered in all integrity
a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, ‘In the Lord alone
are deliverance and strength.’”
All who have raged against him
will come to him and be put to shame.
25 But all the descendants of Israel
will find deliverance in the Lord
and will make their boast in him.


Philippians 2:10-11
English Standard Version
10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Is every knee meant to bow to God or to Jesus or is this evidence Jesus is God?

[Capbook]

[Replying to Capbook in post #22]

Now John 1:14 does not say Jesus is God. You will have to explain that one sometime, maybe later.

The conclusion of the context does, John 1:18 (GNB) No one has ever seen God. The only Son, who is the same as God and is at the Father's side, he has made him known. Does paraphrase not confuse you?

ESV did not translate the verse you have highlighted correctly.

Another one, Good News Bible translation does.

ESV contradicted itself if the translator thought the Son was the same exact God as the Father.

See Good News Bible translation above. I know you will disagree with that paraphrase translation, but that is the truth.

For example:

No one has ever seen God; the only God, who is at the Father's side, he has made him known. (John 1:18, ESV)
And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. (John 17:3, ESV)

Yes, and who has the eternal life? (1John 5:11) Does the Father wrong saying that?
And who has the eternal life in 1 John 5:20? Hope to receive honest answer with this.

I quote a person and now I've lost his name..
"Their translation of the original Greek, in John 1:18, is 'gross', to put it bluntly. They not only remove 'begotten' when translating 'monogenes', which is best translated as 'only begotten', but they also upgrade the Son's divinity, so as to make him equal with the Almighty God. Consequently, we should not be reading:- ...the only God, who is at the Father's side, but should in fact be reading:- ...the only begotten (g)od, who is at the Father's side. We are talking about the 'uniqueness' of the Son's relationship to the Father after all."

Yes, relational subordination of Jesus and the Father. Both are one and same in the nature of God, Good News Bible says it.

If anything the ESV translator should have translated only to this extent, with the words like 'alone and unique god' for Jesus. That would be as far as I would go however before changing the meaning....

(Wallace, Jesus as Θεὸς, Textual Examination, John 1:18)

The following are the four textual variants (in transliterated Greek) of John 1:18b:

1. ho monogenês (The Only-begotten One)

2. ho monogenês huios (the only-begotten Son)

3. monogenês theos (only begotten, (g)God)

4. ho monogenês theos (the only begotten (g)God)

Notice that the Father, who is God is not begotten of course, although this god is begotten...

Well, another translation that does not say begotten, (ISV) No one has ever seen God. The unique God, who is close to the Father's side, has revealed him.

Just look at the previous verse to John 1:18, verse 17. Moses brought the Law of God, and he was not God, he was God's messenger. And Jesus the Christ brought the grace and truth of God, and he was not God, as he was also a messenger of God.
So how could both Moses and Jesus also be God?! If viewed in context correctly. The comparison of Moses' and Jesus' work is clear, as human beings. These two personalities were key to God's plan of salvation.

Of course Christ was greater than Moses, as Jesus spoke to his audiences, although no match at all for his Father, his God, I'm afraid. And you do know why Jesus was greater than Moses, right?

Having a poor version and translation of scripture of some verses does not give license to use it as fact and insert it, and promote your model of belief, I'm afraid.

So, you label ESV as poor version? Have you guess who were the credentialed translators of it?

The original translation committee featured the following notable individuals:[26]
Wayne A. Grudem (Research Professor, Theology and Biblical Studies, Phoenix Seminary)
William D. Mounce (Professor of New Testament, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary)
J. I. Packer (Board of Governors Professor of Theology, Regent College, Vancouver, Canada)
Vern Sheridan Poythress (Professor of New Testament Interpretation, Westminster Theological Seminary; Editor, Westminster Theological Journal)
Gordon Wenham (Old Testament Tutor at Trinity College, Bristol; Emeritus Professor of Old Testament, University of Gloucestershire)
By 2011, Robert H. Mounce and William (Bill) Mounce had become emeritus members.[31] Having served as the ESV New Testament Chair, Bill Mounce's role was assigned to Vern Poythress.[14] Writing on his personal blog in 2009, Mounce described his relationship to the ESV, having accepted a position on the NIV translation committee:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_Standard_Version
//

I also have a copy of the God's Word translation and it is very biased towards those wanting Jesus to be God. As you have quoted Romans 9:5 from it.

I do not agree with it at all, and especially when over 99 percent of other translations do not agree with this modern very biased GW translation. It may be an easy to read version, although it got really lost in its translation.

That's what my point is, paraphrase translations are confusing, you cannot dig the Bible words in Hebrew or Greek that guides us to understand all its meaning at the time of its usage. But what I posted and quoted I believe it's truth.

[APAK]

[Replying to APAK in post #25]

Are you saying God spent all his time in the OT condemning the worship of 'not God' to then in the NT elevate 'not God' and tell us to worship 'not God'?

The basis of your words are not Biblical, they are your own opinions and they are extreme. you cannot place scripture to support any of it.

You created the idea that God was condemning the worship of his Son during the OT times when his Son never existed yet. And when his Son went to the Cross he indeed elevated him above every name, as the redeemer of mankind. And no, God does not want us to worship his Son as equal or above himself. That's an incredible and even a blasphemous idea. The true King is the King and his proxy King or Prince will always be his proxy, in stature and honor and even 'worship.'

The OT predicts the son, the Messiah in every theme. I have many posts on here backing the view Jesus is God.

Imagine you had a book about Harry Potter (YHWH) and someone came along and wrote a new book about someone else and told you now everything to do with Harry Potter has to do with the new character. That is what you are doing. Page after page of the NT is about Jesus, not God for you.

You shouldn't allow yourself to mentally wiggle out of this. It is blasphemy to insert not God books and call them the New Testament and value them if Jesus is not God. Read the Old Testament and the lengths God went to to teach Isreal there is is only one God. I mean be fair to the Pharisees. They recognised the same thing I am saying and killed Jesus for it. Jews today recognise what I am saying and reject the New Testament.

But you seem to love having books added to the Bible that are about not God.

I'll tell you what Wootah, let me cut to the chase. Over time as it will take time, you present your support for your claim that Jesus is God and I will reveal or explain why your support has chinks in its armor, at least. I've done this for many decades now and I still have the time and the energy to provide it to you as serious consideration opposing what you have been led to believe in.

[Wootah]

[Replying to APAK in post #32]

I pretty much have a Jesus is God series on her for the JWs.

[Bible_Student]

The reality is this: Jesus is the King whom Jehovah crowned. According to Psalm 110:1, Jehovah Himself would be responsible for subduing His enemies while strengthening His rule. Dan. 7:13, 14 indicate that it is Jehovah Himself who grants rule to Jesus, and Jesus clearly confesses this to His disciples when He says that He has received all authority. It is evident that if people on earth recognize Jesus as divine King and submit to His rule, that homage is indirectly directed to Jehovah, because accepting the Son as King means accepting the arrangement formalized by the Majesty of the Universe.

Furthermore, Jesus will not be alone as king, judge, and priest, but His chosen brothers, purchased with His own blood from among humanity, will reign with Him, judge with Him, and exercise a priesthood alongside Him. This fact is clearly stated in Dan. 7, where in addition to mentioning Jesus as King, he then mentions "the saints of the Supreme One" who receive a government along with Jesus. Jesus told his apostles that they would receive a throne just as he would receive one from his Father (Luke 22:28-30). Then in Rev. 2:26, ​​27, and 3:21, Jesus confirms that authority over the nations, a throne, and a reign, will be given to his anointed brothers who will live with him in heaven if they overcome all trials.

Clearly, bowing down before Jesus is an act that reflects submission to the kingdom's arrangements. According to Daniel and Revelation, it is an act that will also have to be performed before the other kings who will be with Jesus. In Isaiah 60:14, the same scene is repeated: nations recognizing the authority of God's chosen ones, submitting to their rule, and paying homage to those God has placed to reign over humanity. Jesus repeats this in his message to the Christian congregation of Philadelphia in Rev. 3:9.

To believe that paying homage to Jesus means that he is Jehovah is a senseless exaggeration. The Bible shows why homage is paid to Jesus, who represents the God who crowned him King, and also to his brothers chosen from among humanity to reign from heaven on earth in the future (Rev. 5:9, 10). Accepting that Jesus will receive homage from all humanity in his due time has nothing to do with the Trinity, Modalism, or Unitarianism. Many NT texts say that when Jesus comes, he will do so "in the glory of his Father" (Matt. 16:27; Luke 9:26).

[Wootah]

[Replying to Bible_Student in post #34]

There is a topic. You ignored it. Please post on topic.

How come the NT consistently uses verses from the OT that apply to God alone and IF I applied those verse to me, you, anyone, any angel, any king, you would identify that as blasphemy BUT when you have actual evidence of them being applied to a not God being Jesus you fail to see this?

[Bible_Student]

[Replying to Bible_Student in post #34]

There is a topic. You ignored it. Please post on topic.

How come the NT consistently uses verses from the OT that apply to God alone and IF I applied those verse to me, you, anyone, any angel, any king, you would identify that as blasphemy BUT when you have actual evidence of them being applied to a not God being Jesus you fail to see this?

The title of this topic is Jesus is God - Every knee shall bow ... and that's what my comment is about.

Concerning the tiles aplied to Jehovah and to Jesus,, it's equally far-fetched to assume that this implies they are identical individuals or share the same role. If that were true, one might even suggest that Nebuchadnezzar was the embodiment of Jesus, as referred to by the prophet Daniel:

 Dan. 2:37 You, O king—the king of kings to whom the God of heaven has given the kingdom, the might, the strength, and the glory, 38 and into whose hand he has given men wherever they may dwell, as well as the beasts of the field and the birds of the heavens, and whom he has made ruler over all of them—you yourself are the head of gold.

Clearly, utilizing identical titles for various individuals does not adequately demonstrate that they are the same person or that they possess equivalent authority.

The Scriptures explicitly indicate that Jesus obtained all that he has from God, His Father. Therefore, attempting to create a rationale suggesting that they share equal status and authority in heaven is quite audacious. I apologize for my frankness.

[Wootah]

[Replying to Bible_Student in post #36]

You read 2 Daniel and thing Nebuchadnezzar is God? Do you think Daniel thought Nebuchadnezzar was God?

How come the NT consistently uses verses from the OT that apply to God alone and IF I applied those verse to me, you, anyone, any angel, any king, you would identify that as blasphemy BUT when you have actual evidence of them being applied to a not God being Jesus you fail to see this?

[Bible_Student]

I think I was explicit about what the Bible shows concerning comparing Jehovah and Jesus based on tiles, roles and other applied texts.

I don't really have too much time right now. Hopefully in another moment I'll continue showing why any attempt to compare Jehovah to Jesus is futile, since Jesus calls Jehovah his own God, something that would be impossible if he were the God of gods, just as his Father is.

I wish you a wonderful week.

[APAK]

[Replying to Wootah in post #33]

Well all who do not believe the Son of God is the same as God himself are not all JWs either, as I'm not one.

And there are areas I do agree with them on and others areas not.

Just saying..

[Wootah]

[Replying to Wootah in post #33]

Well all who do not believe the Son of God is the same as God himself are not all JWs either, as I'm not one.

And there are areas I do agree with them on and others areas not.

Just saying..

Well what belief system do you belong to?