Did Christ have free will?

[brianbbs67]

Did Jesus/Yeshua/whateverhisname have free will. We see him quote" the son can only do as the father has instructed". Or was he so devoted to the father it never was an issue?

So, was he locked into the doctrine? Or could he act of his will? I can see examples of both. What do you all see?

[2timothy316]

One cannot force a choice.

That’s just not true; the church alone has been doing that for centuries.

This really says it all. This grieves me deeply that you might not have any idea of what you are admitting to.

[EBA]

If there is no choice for Jesus then why...
... did Satan tempt Jesus to abandon his Father? (Matthew 4:1-11)

You are aware, of course, that we can explain this unwitnessed scene by appealing to metaphor. It did not happen literally: who saw it?

I believe this is metaphorical.

[EBA]

One cannot force a choice.

That’s just not true; the church alone has been doing that for centuries.

This really says it all. This grieves me deeply that you might not have any idea of what you are admitting to.

Why stop there? By all means, explain your grievance.

[William]

[Replying to post 119 by EBA]

As long as there is choice, then there is free will.

Really,

Yes. Truly.

so if a fundamentalist says accept God or go to hell and a JW says accept God or be annihilated and I say both options are ridiculous, which option are you going to choose and why?

I would not choose any of those options. I have my own understanding of what goes on in afterlife, and I choose that.

Being placed in a position where ones choices are limited - even if the choice is life or death, one still has free will.

Yeah, again, that statement is just contradictory.

You can say that, but it is up to you to explain why you think it is contradictory.

[EBA]

As long as there is choice, then there is free will.

Really, so if a fundamentalist says accept God or go to hell and a JW says accept God or be annihilated and I say both options are ridiculous, which option are you going to choose and why?

Yes. Truly.
I would not choose any of those options. I have my own understanding of what goes on in afterlife, and I choose that.

Thank you; you just proved that you cannot make a choice without cause.

Being placed in a position where ones choices are limited - even if the choice is life or death, one still has free will.

Yeah, again, that statement is just contradictory.

You can say that, but it is up to you to explain why you think it is contradictory.

free
adjective, adverb US ​ /fri/
free adjective, adverb (NOT LIMITED) (Emphasis mine)

[ -er/-est only ] not limited or controlled: (Emphasis mine)

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dic ... glish/free

[William]

[Replying to post 125 by EBA]

Thank you; you just proved that you cannot make a choice without cause.

You cannot make a choice without options.

free
adjective, adverb US ​ /fri/
free adjective, adverb (NOT LIMITED) (Emphasis mine)

[ -er/-est only ] not limited or controlled: (Emphasis mine)

I think you are trying to make a case for their being no such thing as free will. In that, no one, Jesus or otherwise - has free will.

However, if the will is not limited (if their are options available re choices) then it is free in that sense.

If the will is controlled, it is controlled by the individual who has free will, even if their choices are limited to 2 options. If there is no option, then one might argue that a person still has will but it is not free, because the limitation has reduced the circumstance to one without options.

However, I can think of no example off the top of my head where a person truly has no options. Even it their only option is death, they still have options on how to face that death.

Perhaps you can come up with an example where absolutely no options are available to someone who has the ability to choose.

[2timothy316]

One cannot force a choice.

That’s just not true; the church alone has been doing that for centuries.

This really says it all. This grieves me deeply that you might not have any idea of what you are admitting to.

Why stop there? By all means, explain your grievance.

So many have been taught that they have no options. 'The Church' has enslaved so many minds into thinking there are no options. That 'The Church' makes the decisions for people. That 'The Church' has clouded people's mind into thinking they have no freedom of choice. 'The Church' even teaches that our savior Jesus has no freedom of choice. That 'The Church' makes others view the Bible through their doctrinal glasses and shame those that use their power of reason though the Bible says we should use our power of reason (Roman 12:1)...all of these things grieve me.

[EBA]

You cannot make a choice without options.

That is true, I agree.

Options, however, are not causes and all choices are caused.

However, if the will is not limited (if their are options available re choices) then it is free in that sense.

Your will is limited to circumstances either internal or external.

If the will is controlled, it is controlled by the individual who has free will, even if their choices are limited to 2 options.

If there is no option, then one might argue that a person still has will but it is not free, because the limitation has reduced the circumstance to one without options.

Actually, if there is no cause, then one would have free will.

You didn’t just wake up one morning and decide you had free will right? You first had to hear the term, understand what it was and why it even matters. And then choose whether to believe you possess it or not.

A simple question forces you to make a choice. And just because I use the word “force� doesn’t mean that the force is negative.

However, I can think of no example off the top of my head where a person truly has no options. Even it their only option is death, they still have options on how to face that death.

Not always. Sometimes death is sudden.

Perhaps you can come up with an example where absolutely no options are available to someone who has the ability to choose.

As far as options go, yes there are a few that I can think of; death and taxes right.

OK, seriously with taxes there are options but with death not so. We are all going to die. There is no option there; even Jesus, when he took on the form of man, had to die.

If we had free will, though, that would be a different matter.

Peace.

[EBA]

So many have been taught that they have no options.

True.

'The Church' has enslaved so many minds into thinking there are no options.

True.

That 'The Church' makes the decisions for people.

True.

That 'The Church' has clouded people's mind into thinking they have no freedom of choice.

Not so true. Most churches (in fact most people) teach free will or at least believe in it.

As far as freedom of choice goes, well, that’s an illusion; albeit a strong one.

'The Church' even teaches that our savior Jesus has no freedom of choice.

I haven’t been to or heard of a church that teaches that but I’ll take your word for it.

That 'The Church' makes others view the Bible through their doctrinal glasses and shame those that use their power of reason

True, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with reason. God gave us the ability to reason, however, reason does not trump the Word of God.

Now these things, brethren, I have figuratively transferred to myself and Apollos for your sakes, that you may learn in us not to think beyond what is written, that none of you may be puffed up on behalf of one against the other. (1 Cor 4:6)

I know, O LORD , that a man's life is not his own; it is not for man to direct his steps. (Jer 10:23)

And by the way, I’m still not clear as to why you stated this:

you might not have any idea of what you are admitting to.

Peace

[William]

[Replying to post 128 by EBA]

Simply put you are arguing that free will does not exist.

In that, you are saying Jesus had no free will, and nor does anyone else.

The OP was not taking that particular position and I am arguing in the spirit of the OP, that free will does exist. Your interpretation of free will is different from my own, that is all.

In that, there is no particular reason to argue about interpretations which are diametrically opposed.