Questions about Jesus and JW’s

[MissKate13]

1. Jehovah’s Witnesses say Jesus was “a god.” This is how the NWT reads (John 1:1).

Do JW’s believe Jesus was a true or false god?

2. JW’s say Jesus is a created being.

When was Jesus (capital or lower case g) created?

I look forward to your responses to one or both questions.

MissKate13

[MissKate13]

JESUS = YHWH

Proof # 1

10 “And I will pour on the house of David and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem the Spirit of grace and supplication; then they will look on Me whom they pierced. Yes, they will mourn for Him as one mourns for his only son, and grieve for Him as one grieves for a firstborn. (Zechariah 12:10)

They will look on ME. ME = YHWH

7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen. (Revelation 1:7)

HE, HIM = JESUS

33 But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break His legs. 34 But one of the soldiers pierced His side with a spear, and immediately blood and water came out. 35 And he who has seen has testified, and his testimony is true; and he knows that he is telling the truth, so that you may believe. 36 For these things were done that the Scripture should be fulfilled,Not one of His bones shall be broken.” 37 And again another Scripture says, “They shall look on Him whom they pierced.” (John 19:33-37)

This is how Jesus could say, “I and My Father are one. (John 10:30)

[JehovahsWitness]

DOES ZECHARIAH 12:10 SUPPORT THE TRINITY?

#1 It is an undenyable fact that the text in HEBREW literally reads "they shall look on him whom they pierced"

#2 According to the writter of the gospel of John, who It is well accepted quoted from the The Hebrew text of Zechariah, the verse reads "they shall look on him whom they pierced" - see John 19:37

Thus a number of translations render ZECHARIAH 12:10 as follows

New Revised Standard Version
... they look on the one whom they have pierced

New American Bible
... they look on him whom they have thrust through

There is no doubt that Greek translation of the Hebrew grammar allows for either rendition (to me whom OR to Him whom) but one cannot fault the translations that favor the later.

"The reading "me" is certainly quite early, for it appears in the Septuagint (which otherwise misses the point of the passage); but the New Testament seems to attach no significance to Zech. 12:10 as providing evidence for the deity of Christ,....And, whoever the pierced one is, the fact that he is referred to elsewhere in the verse in the third person ("they shall mourn for him....and weep bitterly over him") suggests that he is Yahweh's representative(probably the annionted king), in whose piercing Yahweh Himself is pierced." - History of the Bible in English, pp.199,200, Lutterworth Press, 1979 third edition

FURTHER READING
https://www.angelfire.com/space/thegosp ... 12_10.html
https://onlytruegod.org/defense/zechariah12.10.htm



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[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #110]

JW, what part of “I am not interested in arguing translations” don’t you get? I could care less what translation you use.

Did you even read my post?

I do a text analysis of every verse I post. I use Bible dictionaries as well. I suggest you do the same. Read the passages in their context as I did. Compare Scripture to Scripture as I did. Let the Holy Spirit lead you as I did. Pray our Heavenly Father show you His truth and not what Watchtower teaches. Dare to challenge what your leaders tell you like I did.


For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #110]

JW, what part of “I am not interested in arguing translations” don’t you get....

My dear Misskate,

I do not recall asking you to argue about anything. You posted something about Zechariah 12:10 and I posted something in response. I am sure you are not suggesting you can prohibit me from mentioning the Hebrew and Greek or refering to legitimate alternative renditions in various tranlations. I was unaware that your prefernence for the NKJV amounts to your having the authority to ban other posters from mentioning any other TRANSLATION in their own posts.

No single translation trumps another, and when differences of opinion arise regarding various translations, Hebrew and Greek sources will have a greater authority. Sticking to a single translation to prove your point, when the majority of translations disagree, is not allowed, and your point must then be proven by deferring to the original language in which it was written.

There is usually a little sliding tool on the side of most computers or androids that allows people to skip over posts they have no interest in reading. There is also the option of using the "IGNORE" button which will render any "offensive" posts invisible. Alternativey you can report a post as being offensive or irrelevant to the OP but I do not believe my post in a thread which specifically requests input about the JW view of Jesus can justifiably be considered irrelevant. And certainly not if dealing with the same scripture that was raised by the original poster.

[MissKate13]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #114]

I was responding to your post #110, which was directed to me.

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #114]

I was responding to your post #110, which was directed to me.

Thank you and I appreciate that but if you find it unduly upsetting or if doing so makes you talk about a subject you do not wish to deal with, feel free not to. See above : viewtopic.php?p=1112238#p1112238



Be Blessed,


JW

[Eloi]

(...)
For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

I like that text ... Actually, I like the whole passage:

John 8:21 So he said to them again: “I am going away, and you will look for me, and yet you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” 22 The Jews then began to say: “He will not kill himself, will he? Because he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’” 23 He went on to say to them: “You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world; I am not from this world. 24 That is why I said to you: You will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am the one, you will die in your sins.” 25 So they began to say to him: “Who are you?” Jesus replied to them: “Why am I even speaking to you at all? 26 I have many things to speak concerning you and to pass judgment on. As a matter of fact, the One who sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.” 27 They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 Jesus then said: “After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things. 29 And the One who sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.”

I just wonder why people sometimes take out of context some of Jesus' sayings.

[MissKate13]

(...)
For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

I like that text ... Actually, I like the whole passage:

John 8:21 So he said to them again: “I am going away, and you will look for me, and yet you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” 22 The Jews then began to say: “He will not kill himself, will he? Because he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’” 23 He went on to say to them: “You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world; I am not from this world. 24 That is why I said to you: You will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am the one, you will die in your sins.” 25 So they began to say to him: “Who are you?” Jesus replied to them: “Why am I even speaking to you at all? 26 I have many things to speak concerning you and to pass judgment on. As a matter of fact, the One who sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.” 27 They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 Jesus then said: “After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things. 29 And the One who sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.”

I just wonder why people sometimes take out of context some of Jesus' sayings.

As do I ! And thank you for posting the context. I’m using
John 8:24 as a signature at the end of my posts. Jesus says you will die in your sins if you don’t believe I am He. Original Greek (eimi) says I am. There is no He or one that I can see in the original Greek.

[Eloi]

(...)
For unless you believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

I like that text ... Actually, I like the whole passage:

John 8:21 So he said to them again: “I am going away, and you will look for me, and yet you will die in your sin. Where I am going, you cannot come.” 22 The Jews then began to say: “He will not kill himself, will he? Because he says, ‘Where I am going, you cannot come.’” 23 He went on to say to them: “You are from the realms below; I am from the realms above. You are from this world; I am not from this world. 24 That is why I said to you: You will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am the one, you will die in your sins.” 25 So they began to say to him: “Who are you?” Jesus replied to them: “Why am I even speaking to you at all? 26 I have many things to speak concerning you and to pass judgment on. As a matter of fact, the One who sent me is true, and the very things I heard from him I am speaking in the world.” 27 They did not grasp that he was talking to them about the Father. 28 Jesus then said: “After you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he and that I do nothing of my own initiative; but just as the Father taught me, I speak these things. 29 And the One who sent me is with me; he did not abandon me to myself, because I always do the things pleasing to him.”

I just wonder why people sometimes take out of context some of Jesus' sayings.

As do I ! And thank you for posting the context. I’m using
John 8:24 as a signature at the end of my posts. Jesus says you will die in your sins if you don’t believe I am He. Original Greek (eimi) says I am. There is no He or one that I can see in the original Greek.

Thanks for the clarification

I love that passage. It shows that Jesus never said he was the person who sent him, but that he tried to do everything to please Him. He was an excelent Son.

[Eloi]

@MissKate13 , what can we learn about Jesus on this passage?

Heb. 5:7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered. 9 And after he had been made perfect, he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him ...