GEHENNA, a place of fiery torture?

[onewithhim]

Jesus warned his disciples against suffering the judgment of Gehenna. Was he referring to a burning hell of everlasting torture? (Matthew 5:22)

The Greek word Ge'en na corresponds to the Hebrew geh veneh-Hin nom,---Valley of the sons of Hinnom. It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish, and anything thrown into this dump would be completely destroyed, turned into ashes.

Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) Because they associated the pagan-inspired notion of an afterlife of fiery judgment for the wicked with the physical fire in the valley outside Jerusalem. Jesus, though, did not associate Gehenna with torture. He knew that the thought of burning people alive is repugnant to Jehovah. He referred to the use made of Gehenna in the days of the prophet Jeremiah. God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day. A good point is that the idea of torture for the dead conflicts with God's loving personality as well as with the Bible's clear teaching that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

Jesus used the term "Gehenna" to symbolize the utter destruction that would come from God's judgment on the wicked. So...."Gehenna" means, similarly, the lake of fire in Revelation. Both symbolize eternal destruction from which there is no resurrection. (Luke 12:4,5; Revelation 20:14,15.

Doesn't this sound more merciful than people being tortured in a never-ending fire? The fire symbolizes complete annihilation, just like what the fires in Gehenna did to trash and bodies of criminals.

[onewithhim]

Jesus warned his disciples against suffering the judgment of Gehenna. Was he referring to a burning hell of everlasting torture? (Matthew 5:22)

The Greek word Ge'en na corresponds to the Hebrew geh veneh-Hin nom,---Valley of the sons of Hinnom. It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish, and anything thrown into this dump would be completely destroyed, turned into ashes.

Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) Because they associated the pagan-inspired notion of an afterlife of fiery judgment for the wicked with the physical fire in the valley outside Jerusalem. Jesus, though, did not associate Gehenna with torture. He knew that the thought of burning people alive is repugnant to Jehovah. He referred to the use made of Gehenna in the days of the prophet Jeremiah. God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day. A good point is that the idea of torture for the dead conflicts with God's loving personality as well as with the Bible's clear teaching that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

Jesus used the term "Gehenna" to symbolize the utter destruction that would come from God's judgment on the wicked. So...."Gehenna" means, similarly, the lake of fire in Revelation. Both symbolize eternal destruction from which there is no resurrection. (Luke 12:4,5; Revelation 20:14,15.

Doesn't this sound more merciful than people being tortured in a never-ending fire? The fire symbolizes complete annihilation, just like what the fires in Gehenna did to trash and bodies of criminals.

Using a simple approach, and Bible principle - 2 Timothy 3:16 - I believe this question can be answered simply by referring to what Gehenna actually is described as in the Bible.
The lake of fire, in the book of Revelation, refers to Gehenna - the final place for all that God is opposed to, or is opposed to God.
Everything that is an enemy of God goes there, and the lake of fire is not gotten rid of.

Revelation 20:14 says the lake of fire is "the second death", where all whose name is not found written in the book of life are cast, along with Satan the Devil, the wild beast, the false prophet, death, and Hades.
The death of anything means its "life" is gone. Whether that thing be my computer, the refrigerator, television, phone, dog, cat, human...

So, the second death - Gehenna - is final destruction - the end of the things cast into it. There is no coming back from the second death. Gehenna is final, as its meaning reveals.

It seem then, that any argument against this will go against the Bible, Jesus, and God, because it is God who sent Jesus with this message, and Jesus sent an angel to signify it. Revelation 1:1

The angel of Jesus did not lie when he explained the symbolism of the lake of fire.
Therefore, if anyone argues that the lake of fire is literal, that person is really arguing against Jesus' angel -
contradicting him, and that would amount to calling Jesus' angel a liar, and by extension, saying both Jesus and God are liars.
I would not want to do that.

So, rather than this being a complicated subject, I see this as simple, and no argument really.
If there is any contending, it is not against a human, because it is either we agree with Jesus, or we don't.
Either Gehenna/lake of fire is the second death, or it isn't.

Yes. Gehenna/lake of fire is the second death.
But what causes the death? Could it be a literal lake of fire?
When literal fire burnt something, could that something turn to ashes?
And in (Ezek 28:18) that the devil's course parallels that of the ancient king of Tyre, will be turn to ashes. (link below)
I believe the lake of fire is literal fire.

You haven't explained how Hades and death can be thrown into a literal lake of fire.

(And God causes the death of Satan and the ending of the grave (Hades) and death. No literal lake of fire.)

We are discussing about lake of fire, lexicon define lake as lake and fire defined literal fire that is for burning.
Can fire burn something that makes that something turn to ashes? Yes or no?

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

NT:3041 lake (limne) probably from NT:3040 (through the idea of nearness of shore); a pond (large or small):
KJV - lake.
( New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

NT:4442 The Greek and Hellenistic World.
1. Literal. pur is "fire" in its various forms and uses, e.g., for burning, lighting, and warming. Fire is a beneficent and civilizing power but also a destructive and terrifying force. In war it destroys ships, cities, etc., but industrially it serves to purify metals etc.
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, abridged edition, Copyright © 1985 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

You haven't explained how "death" can be literally thrown into a lake of fire.

[Capbook]

Jesus warned his disciples against suffering the judgment of Gehenna. Was he referring to a burning hell of everlasting torture? (Matthew 5:22)

The Greek word Ge'en na corresponds to the Hebrew geh veneh-Hin nom,---Valley of the sons of Hinnom. It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish, and anything thrown into this dump would be completely destroyed, turned into ashes.

Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) Because they associated the pagan-inspired notion of an afterlife of fiery judgment for the wicked with the physical fire in the valley outside Jerusalem. Jesus, though, did not associate Gehenna with torture. He knew that the thought of burning people alive is repugnant to Jehovah. He referred to the use made of Gehenna in the days of the prophet Jeremiah. God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day. A good point is that the idea of torture for the dead conflicts with God's loving personality as well as with the Bible's clear teaching that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

Jesus used the term "Gehenna" to symbolize the utter destruction that would come from God's judgment on the wicked. So...."Gehenna" means, similarly, the lake of fire in Revelation. Both symbolize eternal destruction from which there is no resurrection. (Luke 12:4,5; Revelation 20:14,15.

Doesn't this sound more merciful than people being tortured in a never-ending fire? The fire symbolizes complete annihilation, just like what the fires in Gehenna did to trash and bodies of criminals.

Using a simple approach, and Bible principle - 2 Timothy 3:16 - I believe this question can be answered simply by referring to what Gehenna actually is described as in the Bible.
The lake of fire, in the book of Revelation, refers to Gehenna - the final place for all that God is opposed to, or is opposed to God.
Everything that is an enemy of God goes there, and the lake of fire is not gotten rid of.

Revelation 20:14 says the lake of fire is "the second death", where all whose name is not found written in the book of life are cast, along with Satan the Devil, the wild beast, the false prophet, death, and Hades.
The death of anything means its "life" is gone. Whether that thing be my computer, the refrigerator, television, phone, dog, cat, human...

So, the second death - Gehenna - is final destruction - the end of the things cast into it. There is no coming back from the second death. Gehenna is final, as its meaning reveals.

It seem then, that any argument against this will go against the Bible, Jesus, and God, because it is God who sent Jesus with this message, and Jesus sent an angel to signify it. Revelation 1:1

The angel of Jesus did not lie when he explained the symbolism of the lake of fire.
Therefore, if anyone argues that the lake of fire is literal, that person is really arguing against Jesus' angel -
contradicting him, and that would amount to calling Jesus' angel a liar, and by extension, saying both Jesus and God are liars.
I would not want to do that.

So, rather than this being a complicated subject, I see this as simple, and no argument really.
If there is any contending, it is not against a human, because it is either we agree with Jesus, or we don't.
Either Gehenna/lake of fire is the second death, or it isn't.

Yes. Gehenna/lake of fire is the second death.
But what causes the death? Could it be a literal lake of fire?
When literal fire burnt something, could that something turn to ashes?
And in (Ezek 28:18) that the devil's course parallels that of the ancient king of Tyre, will be turn to ashes. (link below)
I believe the lake of fire is literal fire.

You haven't explained how Hades and death can be thrown into a literal lake of fire.

(And God causes the death of Satan and the ending of the grave (Hades) and death. No literal lake of fire.)

We are discussing about lake of fire, lexicon define lake as lake and fire defined literal fire that is for burning.
Can fire burn something that makes that something turn to ashes? Yes or no?

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

NT:3041 lake (limne) probably from NT:3040 (through the idea of nearness of shore); a pond (large or small):
KJV - lake.
( New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

NT:4442 The Greek and Hellenistic World.
1. Literal. pur is "fire" in its various forms and uses, e.g., for burning, lighting, and warming. Fire is a beneficent and civilizing power but also a destructive and terrifying force. In war it destroys ships, cities, etc., but industrially it serves to purify metals etc.
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, abridged edition, Copyright © 1985 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

You haven't explained how "death" can be literally thrown into a lake of fire.

I have already answered that. See below, which you said "correct". Post #89

The concept of casting or putting death and grave into the lake of fire is to put an end to them.

Luke 17:29
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

NT:622
1. to destroy i. e. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

You are correct.

[onewithhim]

Jesus warned his disciples against suffering the judgment of Gehenna. Was he referring to a burning hell of everlasting torture? (Matthew 5:22)

The Greek word Ge'en na corresponds to the Hebrew geh veneh-Hin nom,---Valley of the sons of Hinnom. It became a garbage dump for Jerusalem, serving as an incinerator where fires were kept burning to dispose of rubbish, and anything thrown into this dump would be completely destroyed, turned into ashes.

Many Bible translators haven rendered Ge' en na as "hell." (Matthew 5:22, KJV) Why is this? (Since Gehenna and hell are two different things.) Because they associated the pagan-inspired notion of an afterlife of fiery judgment for the wicked with the physical fire in the valley outside Jerusalem. Jesus, though, did not associate Gehenna with torture. He knew that the thought of burning people alive is repugnant to Jehovah. He referred to the use made of Gehenna in the days of the prophet Jeremiah. God said: "They have built the high places of Topheth which is in the valley of the sons of Hinnom in order to burn their sons and daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart." Burning people was not something that God can countenance, and He can't to this day. A good point is that the idea of torture for the dead conflicts with God's loving personality as well as with the Bible's clear teaching that "the dead are conscious of nothing." (Ecclesiastes 9:5,10)

Jesus used the term "Gehenna" to symbolize the utter destruction that would come from God's judgment on the wicked. So...."Gehenna" means, similarly, the lake of fire in Revelation. Both symbolize eternal destruction from which there is no resurrection. (Luke 12:4,5; Revelation 20:14,15.

Doesn't this sound more merciful than people being tortured in a never-ending fire? The fire symbolizes complete annihilation, just like what the fires in Gehenna did to trash and bodies of criminals.

Using a simple approach, and Bible principle - 2 Timothy 3:16 - I believe this question can be answered simply by referring to what Gehenna actually is described as in the Bible.
The lake of fire, in the book of Revelation, refers to Gehenna - the final place for all that God is opposed to, or is opposed to God.
Everything that is an enemy of God goes there, and the lake of fire is not gotten rid of.

Revelation 20:14 says the lake of fire is "the second death", where all whose name is not found written in the book of life are cast, along with Satan the Devil, the wild beast, the false prophet, death, and Hades.
The death of anything means its "life" is gone. Whether that thing be my computer, the refrigerator, television, phone, dog, cat, human...

So, the second death - Gehenna - is final destruction - the end of the things cast into it. There is no coming back from the second death. Gehenna is final, as its meaning reveals.

It seem then, that any argument against this will go against the Bible, Jesus, and God, because it is God who sent Jesus with this message, and Jesus sent an angel to signify it. Revelation 1:1

The angel of Jesus did not lie when he explained the symbolism of the lake of fire.
Therefore, if anyone argues that the lake of fire is literal, that person is really arguing against Jesus' angel -
contradicting him, and that would amount to calling Jesus' angel a liar, and by extension, saying both Jesus and God are liars.
I would not want to do that.

So, rather than this being a complicated subject, I see this as simple, and no argument really.
If there is any contending, it is not against a human, because it is either we agree with Jesus, or we don't.
Either Gehenna/lake of fire is the second death, or it isn't.

Yes. Gehenna/lake of fire is the second death.
But what causes the death? Could it be a literal lake of fire?
When literal fire burnt something, could that something turn to ashes?
And in (Ezek 28:18) that the devil's course parallels that of the ancient king of Tyre, will be turn to ashes. (link below)
I believe the lake of fire is literal fire.

You haven't explained how Hades and death can be thrown into a literal lake of fire.

(And God causes the death of Satan and the ending of the grave (Hades) and death. No literal lake of fire.)

We are discussing about lake of fire, lexicon define lake as lake and fire defined literal fire that is for burning.
Can fire burn something that makes that something turn to ashes? Yes or no?

Rev 19:20
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

NT:3041 lake (limne) probably from NT:3040 (through the idea of nearness of shore); a pond (large or small):
KJV - lake.
( New Exhaustive Strong's Numbers and Concordance with Expanded Greek-Hebrew Dictionary. Copyright and International Bible Translators, Inc.)

NT:4442 The Greek and Hellenistic World.
1. Literal. pur is "fire" in its various forms and uses, e.g., for burning, lighting, and warming. Fire is a beneficent and civilizing power but also a destructive and terrifying force. In war it destroys ships, cities, etc., but industrially it serves to purify metals etc.
(from Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, abridged edition, Copyright © 1985 by William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. All rights reserved.)

You haven't explained how "death" can be literally thrown into a lake of fire.

I have already answered that. See below, which you said "correct". Post #89

The concept of casting or putting death and grave into the lake of fire is to put an end to them.

Luke 17:29
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.

NT:622
1. to destroy i. e. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to, ruin
(Thayer's Greek Lexicon)

You are correct.

Then why are you subsequently saying that the lake of fire is literal? You said it means the destruction of death and the grave---putting an end to them. This is correct. Then you hold to the idea that the lake of fire is literal. You are confused it seems.

You haven't answered as to how you can literally throw "death" and "Hades" into the lake of fire. How can you do that? Do you have an answer?

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #9]
Why do so many people believe that after a person dies they are still alive? I thought to be dead means you are actually dead.

It depends on one's definition of death:

Death (Random House College Dictionary): the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

According to the Bible, two separate and distinct deaths can befall man. The first unavoidable and most obvious death ends our short physical life which we are presently living on the earth.

And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment: (Hebrews 9:27)

But the Bible goes on to state that every human who ever died will be resurrected to life once again:

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. (1 Corinthians 15:22-23)

If true death is final, then our first death is not death at all, as it does not meet the definition of death. That is, it is not final or permanent. Therefore, those that die their first appointed death in the Bible are said to be sleeping, slumbering, or resting -- not dead. Resting in peace, awaiting their awaking at the resurrection.

Our second possible physical death is described in the book of Revelation:

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. (Revelation 20:14-15)

Individuals whose names are not written in the book of life are cast into the lake of fire and suffer their second death. They die because they are physical bodies which can die. They are physical bodies because they have never believed in Jesus and been born again as a spirit which cannot die. It is very important to notice that this death is actually labeled as a death! That is, it is final and eternal. There is no recovery or return from the second death! This truly fits our definition of the word death. It is the permanent cessation of all vital life functions.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #9]
Why do so many people believe that after a person dies they are still alive? I thought to be dead means you are actually dead.

It depends on one's definition of death:

Death (Random House College Dictionary): the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

You got it. That is what death is, and Satan will die. It will be the "total and permanent cessation of all vital functions."

[tam]

Peace to you,

Do you guys believe that literal fire (of some sort) comes down from heaven and devours 'them'? (From Revelation 20, after Satan misleads 'gog and magog'.)

If so, what is the issue with there being a "lake of fire" that can do the same? The lake of fire does indeed means the second death - that utter destruction would leave no possibility of a resurrection. There would be nothing left TO resurrect.


Peace again.

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #9]
Why do so many people believe that after a person dies they are still alive? I thought to be dead means you are actually dead.

It depends on one's definition of death:

Death (Random House College Dictionary): the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

You got it. That is what death is, and Satan will die. It will be the "total and permanent cessation of all vital functions."

No, Satan will be tormented for ever and ever according to the scriptures as inspired by God:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

And that does not meet the above definition of being dead.

The dead experience no torment.

I'm still siding with God on this one.

Why do you resist the scriptures?

[John17_3]

Peace to you,

Do you guys believe that literal fire (of some sort) comes down from heaven and devours 'them'? (From Revelation 20, after Satan misleads 'gog and magog'.)

If so, what is the issue with there being a "lake of fire" that can do the same? The lake of fire does indeed means the second death - that utter destruction would leave no possibility of a resurrection. There would be nothing left TO resurrect.


Peace again.

If the fire that came down from heaven and katesthió - literally ate them up, or consumed them, are they destroyed by the fire?
If they are destroyed by the fire that came from heaven, would that not mean that the lake of fire is not another fire designed to torment them, but rather represents their complete destruction, as in their second (permanent) death?

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #9]
Why do so many people believe that after a person dies they are still alive? I thought to be dead means you are actually dead.

It depends on one's definition of death:

Death (Random House College Dictionary): the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

You got it. That is what death is, and Satan will die. It will be the "total and permanent cessation of all vital functions."

No, Satan will be tormented for ever and ever according to the scriptures as inspired by God:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

And that does not meet the above definition of being dead.

The dead experience no torment.

I'm still siding with God on this one.

Why do you resist the scriptures?

Why do YOU resist the Scriptures? I'm on God's side, and He would not torture someone forever with no hope of redemption. "Torment" simply means the disallowing of a person's freedom, like a jailor might do. "Torment" comes from the root word in Greek for "tormenter," or, jailor. Satan will suffer death, and that is the "total and permanent cessation of all vital functions."

[myth-one.com]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #9]
Why do so many people believe that after a person dies they are still alive? I thought to be dead means you are actually dead.

It depends on one's definition of death:

Death (Random House College Dictionary): the act of dying; the end of life; the total and permanent cessation of all the vital functions of an animal or plant.

You got it. That is what death is, and Satan will die. It will be the "total and permanent cessation of all vital functions."

No, Satan will be tormented for ever and ever according to the scriptures as inspired by God:

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)

And that does not meet the above definition of being dead.

The dead experience no torment.

I'm still siding with God on this one.

Why do you resist the scriptures?

Why do YOU resist the Scriptures? I'm on God's side, and He would not torture someone forever with no hope of redemption. "Torment" simply means the disallowing of a person's freedom, like a jailor might do. "Torment" comes from the root word in Greek for "tormenter," or, jailor. Satan will suffer death, and that is the "total and permanent cessation of all vital functions."

God would not torture anyone.

The devil will be tormented, not tortured, for ever and ever due to his everlasting imprisonment in the lake of fire.

To be tormented day and night for ever and ever, one has to live for ever and ever.

There are only two type of bodies, natural and spiritual.

Is Satan a natural or spiritual bodied being?

What verse in the Bible states that Satan will suffer death?