Proselytization Requires Proof

[Zzyzx]

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Proselytization Requires Proof

Believe whatever you like. That is no one’s business but your own.

However, when you attempt to convince others to believe or worship as you suggest or demand, you are ethically and intellectually required to furnish reason (acceptable to the person) to conclude that you speak truth – and they are intellectually required to ask for proof.

Christians have no proof – only an old book of tales by Bronze Age storytellers (all else is emotional appeal).

Notice that the opposition (the dreaded “Atheists� and other “heretics�) does NOT proselytize a belief system. Non-belief is not a belief in spite of religionists’ ill informed attempts to make it appear so.

[olavisjo]

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Proselytization Requires Proof

Which part of 'love your neighbour' do you need proof for?
Once you get that down pat, all the rest follows naturally.

[realthinker]

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Proselytization Requires Proof

Which part of 'love your neighbour' do you need proof for?
Once you get that down pat, all the rest follows naturally.

That little tidbit of tidy living isn't an idea that you're spreading. It's a euphemistic description of a behavior. What supposedly follows naturally from that behavior is reciprocation. It's the suggested consequence of not exhibiting that behavior and the supposed executor of that consequence that proselytization is responsible for, and that certainly does not follow naturally.

[olavisjo]

What supposedly follows naturally from that behavior is reciprocation.

To the contrary, at least according to the Bible.

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

So there is your proof, the Bible says that the world will hate you if you follow Jesus, and I have found that to be very true.
And yet, we are still to love others, even our enemies.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It's the suggested consequence of not exhibiting that behavior and the supposed executor of that consequence that proselytization is responsible for, and that certainly does not follow naturally.

We create the consequences of our own behaviour.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

[Goat]

What supposedly follows naturally from that behavior is reciprocation.

To the contrary, at least according to the Bible.

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

So there is your proof, the Bible says that the world will hate you if you follow Jesus, and I have found that to be very true.
And yet, we are still to love others, even our enemies.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It's the suggested consequence of not exhibiting that behavior and the supposed executor of that consequence that proselytization is responsible for, and that certainly does not follow naturally.

We create the consequences of our own behaviour.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

Tell me, how are out of context quote proof of anything?

[olavisjo]

Tell me, how are out of context quote proof of anything?

What is the correct context of those quotes?

[Goat]

Tell me, how are out of context quote proof of anything?

What is the correct context of those quotes?

You are the one that pulled them out of thin air... you tell me.

And, .. why should anything quoted from that book be considered to begin with. You have to remember you are talking to people who don't accept that book as divine. Why should random quotes be proof of anything?

[realthinker]

What supposedly follows naturally from that behavior is reciprocation.

To the contrary, at least according to the Bible.

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

So there is your proof, the Bible says that the world will hate you if you follow Jesus, and I have found that to be very true.
And yet, we are still to love others, even our enemies.

Expecting you to explain your weak statements and assorted quotes equates to hatred? Felling like you need to be a victim today? Or is that your habit in general? I'll save hatred for someone who makes a difference.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

It's the suggested consequence of not exhibiting that behavior and the supposed executor of that consequence that proselytization is responsible for, and that certainly does not follow naturally.

We create the consequences of our own behaviour.

You seem to be falling from your own argument there. If I'm creating my own consequences, what need is there for God or the Bible? I'll make it up on my own! And it won't involve heaven or hell, or other epic imaginary places.

What you suggest, I believe, is that we are responsible for the execution of consequences related to our behavior. And that, indeed, does follow naturally. You're not breaking any new ground there. If one exhibits a behavior, the consequence must follow. But that doesn't say anything about why that consequence should follow. You suggest that the consequence is because of God. That notion is what does not naturally follow from the simple statement, "Love your neighbor".

You're spewing religious sounding phrases that aren't helping you. Put together an idea, and then work out some text that portrays that idea. Try something other than taking someone else's vague notions and expecting us to respect what you try to make of them.

Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.

[Zzyzx]

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Proselytization Requires Proof

Which part of 'love your neighbour' do you need proof for?

I “need proof� that Christians or those who proselytize actually love their neighbors – consistently – and that they do so more than Non-Christians or non-proselytizers.

Are you attempting to say that proselytizers’ motivation is love of neighbor? Are there other motivations that might account for that behavior (think televangelists and celebrity / wealthy preachers)?

Once you get that down pat, all the rest follows naturally.

Do you attempt to claim exclusive possession of “love your neighbor� for Christians or for those who proselytize – and deny that others do love their neighbors while NOT worshiping invisible super beings?

Are you qualified to say or suggest that I or anyone else does or does not have “love thy neighbor� “down pat�?

[olavisjo]

Tell me, how are out of context quote proof of anything?

What is the correct context of those quotes?

You are the one that pulled them out of thin air... you tell me.

No, you are the one who said they are out of context.

Tell me, how are out of context quote proof of anything?

So, you tell me why they are out of context or tell me what you meant when you said that, like Goat has a bias against the Bible and has not even looked at the context of those quotes.