Hello.
I don't know if this is the right forum for this message since atheism isn't a religion of any sort, so please feel free to move this post to where it's most appropriate.
I'd like to ask some questions to atheists out of curiousity.
- Does the fact that you do not believe in God, necessarily equate for you that there is no afterlife as well (after life, there is only non-existence)?
- In the absence of a deity who dishes out punishment and rewards the "good", has this, in any way, encouraged you to do any or some things that God-fearing people would not? (i.e. If I can get away with stealing someone's wife or money, it's ok cos I won't be penalized anyway) Please don't think that I think bad of atheists. I'm genuinely curious as to how an atheist thinks.
- Do some atheists who don't believe in God, still believe in a universal system of reward and retribution (like karma?), or does it follow that if you're an atheist, you do not believe in this?
Any other stuff you can tell me about yourself and your beliefs would be very appreciated. Thanks.
Questions for Atheists
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perspective
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Re: Questions for Atheists
Post #2First of all, not all atheists believe the same things. The great thing about not being restricted by religious dogma is that each individual can weigh the arguments for and against any concept and decide for his or herself what makes most sense.
For me, there is nothing for me after I die. The only "afterlife" for a person who dies is the memories and behaviors that live on in the ones who loved him/her. The only way to live on after death is to leave a legacy during life. A teacher, coach, parent - these individuals all have the most rich afterlives because they touch the ones that live on after them so deeply.fonso wrote: - Does the fact that you do not believe in God, necessarily equate for you that there is no afterlife as well (after life, there in only non-existence)?
As for me, my moral code is very much the golden rule. I NEVER do unto others that which I would not have them do unto me. The only thing that I have no problem doing that God-fearing people have issues with is taking the life of an unborn child. I know that I do not remember anything from when I was an unborn child. I did not have the sophistication to understand any of the complex issues/emotions that would have come with being aborted. Physical pain can be eliminated in an abortion or euthanasia - so there is nothing in my moral code that dictates that a fetus or even a very young already-born child deserves life unconditionally. Of course, for me, only in the most dire circumstances would I choose to end the life of one of my own children, but I could not look down upon any other person who felt they were making the tough decision in the best interest of the child.fonso wrote: - In the absence of a deity who dishes out punishment and rewards the "good", has this, in any way, encouraged you to do any or some things that God-fearing people would not? (i.e. If I can get away with stealing someone's wife or money, it's ok cos I won't be penalized anyway) Please don't think that I think bad of atheists. I'm genuinely curious as to how an atheist thinks.
I personally subscribe to some of the philosophies of Buddhism - particularly the universal truth. I believe that our lives ought to be a journey towards complete and total understanding of ourselves and everything around us. That's the only goal. It's the purpose of life. There really isn't any reward/retribution system - it's more like serenity in truth. A feeling of rightness and confidence in seeing things as they really are, as they really exist. A calmness that even in bad times, good times, you aren't hindering yourself from finding a solution - you are working and doing your best without obstructing your own progress through "wrong think". Everything must be "right think" or on the progress trail towards "right think". The only reward is when you make a mistake and realize it. Once you made a mistake, and learn from it, you've taken a step forward. Each step forward is a reward and each step back is a retribution - but you only have yourself to appreciate or loathe for the progress or lack thereof.fonso wrote: - Do some atheists who don't believe in God, still believe in a universal system of reward and retribution (like karma?), or does it follow that if you're an atheist, you do not believe in this?
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Pyrrhonist
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Post #4
Belief in a Deity is not equated with leading a moral life. Non believers can be, and are, just as upstanding and moral individuals as believers. Criminality is found in both believers and unbelievers alike, but I would find it nobler if an individual is "good" for the sake of being good as opposed to some one who does "good" expecting a reward. Religion may give hope of a continued existence beyond death but, with some religions, this existence is conditional while with others such existence can turn out to be either very pleasant or very uncomfortable depending on the religiously accepted paths of right and wrong. It depends how and under what society influenced belief one is brought up. Cannibalistic tribes see nothing wrong in eating another human being of another tribe and they go to sleep with a clear conscience because that is what their society accepts as normal. Everything is relative. Take the following poem and you'll see how one theme can be interpreded differently by individual circumstances.
Heaven
Fish (fly-replete, in depth of June,
Dawdling away their wat'ry noon)
Ponder deep wisdom, dark or clear,
Each secret fishy hope or fear.
Fish say, they have their Stream and Pond;
But is there anything Beyond?
This life cannot be All, they swear,
For how unpleasant, if it were!
One may not doubt that, somehow, Good
Shall come of Water and of Mud;
And, sure, the reverent eye must see
A Purpose in Liquidity.
We darkly know, by Faith we cry,
The future is not Wholly Dry.
Mud unto mud! -- Death eddies near --
Not here the appointed End, not here!
But somewhere, beyond Space and Time.
Is wetter water, slimier slime!
And there (they trust) there swimmeth One
Who swam ere rivers were begun,
Immense, of fishy form and mind,
Squamous, omnipotent, and kind;
And under that Almighty Fin,
The littlest fish may enter in.
Oh! never fly conceals a hook,
Fish say, in the Eternal Brook,
But more than mundane weeds are there,
And mud, celestially fair;
Fat caterpillars drift around,
And Paradisal grubs are found;
Unfading moths, immortal flies,
And the worm that never dies.
And in that Heaven of all their wish,
There shall be no more land, say fish.
Rupert Brooke (1887 to 1915)
Heaven
Fish (fly-replete, in depth of June,
Dawdling away their wat'ry noon)
Ponder deep wisdom, dark or clear,
Each secret fishy hope or fear.
Fish say, they have their Stream and Pond;
But is there anything Beyond?
This life cannot be All, they swear,
For how unpleasant, if it were!
One may not doubt that, somehow, Good
Shall come of Water and of Mud;
And, sure, the reverent eye must see
A Purpose in Liquidity.
We darkly know, by Faith we cry,
The future is not Wholly Dry.
Mud unto mud! -- Death eddies near --
Not here the appointed End, not here!
But somewhere, beyond Space and Time.
Is wetter water, slimier slime!
And there (they trust) there swimmeth One
Who swam ere rivers were begun,
Immense, of fishy form and mind,
Squamous, omnipotent, and kind;
And under that Almighty Fin,
The littlest fish may enter in.
Oh! never fly conceals a hook,
Fish say, in the Eternal Brook,
But more than mundane weeds are there,
And mud, celestially fair;
Fat caterpillars drift around,
And Paradisal grubs are found;
Unfading moths, immortal flies,
And the worm that never dies.
And in that Heaven of all their wish,
There shall be no more land, say fish.
Rupert Brooke (1887 to 1915)
Re: Questions for Atheists
Post #5Technically, I suppose, I'm an agnostic, so keep that in mind.
"Getting away" with something without the possibility of being caught or punished in some way is sometimes situational. I once went through the grocery store checkout line with cat litter in the bottom shelf of my shopping cart. The checker didn't notice it, I didn't remember it, and I didn't notice that it didn't get counted towards my total until I was back home. I had to weigh the time, trouble, and other possible repercussions for going back and being honest about it, paying the $1.59 extra, and wasting the extra gasoline to get back there. I didn't go back. Another time, the same thing happened, only this time I was still in the store, the item was a $11.99 box of laundry detergent, and it was about half what my total bill should have been. That time, I did go back and pay the extra.
Additionally, I have a conscience based on empathy with other people and living things. I do not like to cause pain, though some situations call for it. And I suppose I practice Enlightened Self-Interest, which is a variation of do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
I disagree with the wording of the question this way. The simple answer is "yes", but the two really have nothing to do with each other. Because I don't believe that it is reasonable to answer the question of whether or not there is a deity, I can't say that one thing follows the other. I don't believe in either because each one has sufficient lack of evidence on its own.fonso wrote:- Does the fact that you do not believe in God, necessarily equate for you that there is no afterlife as well (after life, there is only non-existence)?
I think there is some difference here with the idea of ideal behavior. I don't think that victimless crimes are necessarily bad. Religious thought crimes, for example, should not be punished. This isn't to say that there isn't a rational basis for prohibiting the covetance of a neighbor's wife (deadly sin contributes to the undesirable action), but action is the only thing that can reasonably be said to be undesirable.fonso wrote:- In the absence of a deity who dishes out punishment and rewards the "good", has this, in any way, encouraged you to do any or some things that God-fearing people would not? (i.e. If I can get away with stealing someone's wife or money, it's ok cos I won't be penalized anyway) Please don't think that I think bad of atheists. I'm genuinely curious as to how an atheist thinks.
"Getting away" with something without the possibility of being caught or punished in some way is sometimes situational. I once went through the grocery store checkout line with cat litter in the bottom shelf of my shopping cart. The checker didn't notice it, I didn't remember it, and I didn't notice that it didn't get counted towards my total until I was back home. I had to weigh the time, trouble, and other possible repercussions for going back and being honest about it, paying the $1.59 extra, and wasting the extra gasoline to get back there. I didn't go back. Another time, the same thing happened, only this time I was still in the store, the item was a $11.99 box of laundry detergent, and it was about half what my total bill should have been. That time, I did go back and pay the extra.
Additionally, I have a conscience based on empathy with other people and living things. I do not like to cause pain, though some situations call for it. And I suppose I practice Enlightened Self-Interest, which is a variation of do unto others as you would have others do unto you.
In my view, there is no cosmic system of judgment accounting. Statistically, any given individual will tend to have an equal number of "good" and "bad" things happen in equal proportions. In practice, this isn't always true -- statistics can't predict the future -- but it's a useful model.fonso wrote:- Do some atheists who don't believe in God, still believe in a universal system of reward and retribution (like karma?), or does it follow that if you're an atheist, you do not believe in this?
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fried beef sandwich
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Re: Questions for Atheists
Post #6Um... technically, no. I could theoretically believe in a deity-less system of reincarnation. However, I haven't seen enough evidence to convince me that reincarnation is legit.- Does the fact that you do not believe in God, necessarily equate for you that there is no afterlife as well (after life, there is only non-existence)?
Probably the only thing I can think of right now is taking the Lord's name in vain. God doesn't care if he doesn't exist, is what I figure.In the absence of a deity who dishes out punishment and rewards the "good", has this, in any way, encouraged you to do any or some things that God-fearing people would not? (i.e. If I can get away with stealing someone's wife or money, it's ok cos I won't be penalized anyway) Please don't think that I think bad of atheists. I'm genuinely curious as to how an atheist thinks.
Is the real question, "why don't you just sin as much as you like?" Because i can answer that question. To be analytical, I've grown up with social mores that have become a part of my personality. I am a product of the culture I grew up with. Plus, I don't like going against my own standards and limits I've set for myself.
I believe in karma, but not seriously. I mean, I still think person A deserves consequence X. And when he does get it, I say, that's karma baby. As in, your actions will have consequences, but not due to any divine factors.Do some atheists who don't believe in God, still believe in a universal system of reward and retribution (like karma?), or does it follow that if you're an atheist, you do not believe in this?
Actually, I have an example of an atheist that does believe in Karma (kind of like me). Taoism, as you may or may not know, is at its heart an atheistic philosophy with mystical leanings. Mystical atheism, you might call it. Taoists speak of the Tao, or the way. And the flow of the tao can be interpreted as "the way things are and go" ... broadly speaking, 'karma' or universal reward and retribution can be interpreted as part of the Tao.
I'm an atheist and I'm still thinking things through.Any other stuff you can tell me about yourself and your beliefs would be very appreciated. Thanks.
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Pyrrhonist
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perspective
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Post #9
Actually, fellas (Pyrrhonist & mystic), this particular thread is for atheists to answer. Those of you who have questions/stories pertaining to a different topic (perhaps personal beliefs of christians), feel free to start a new topic under the Christianity forum.
