Spiritual Israel, or 144,000 Jews?

[placebofactor]

My question is, “Who are the 144,000?
Following is Jehovah’s promise to his people, Israel:

Ezekiel 37:21-28, "Thus saith the LORD God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen (Gentile nations) whither they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: (May 14, 1948) I will make them (12 Tribes) one nation --- they all shall have one shepherd (Jesus), they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, -----I (the LORD) will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant --- And the nations shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

A 7-year covenant of peace with Israel fulfills Daniel 9:27, Jesus is the covenant, and the messenger of the covenant.

Scriptures contain 29 lists of the 12 tribes of Israel in both the Old and New Testaments. Never are more than 12 tribes mentioned. When one tribe is left out, another is inserted, usually the tribe of Levi. From Levi came the priest.

Revelation 7 mentions 12 tribes numbering 144,000. Is there any justification for spiritualizing the number or the names of the tribes in these passages? Never in scripture are the 12 tribes represented as the church.
In Genesis 32:28, the Lord changes Jacob’s name to Israel. Jacob his earthly name, Israel his heavenly name. The 12 sons of Jacob were born of four mothers, Jacob being the common father. Leah and Rachel were Jacob’s wives, and Bilhah and Zilpah were his concubines.

In Exodus 28:21-29, 39:14, the 12 tribes were on the breastplate of the high priest, twelve precious stones arranged in four rows, each name engraved on a stone.

Raëlism, states that the chosen people, 144,000 will continue humanity in case of a disaster.
Jehovah’s Witnesses claim to be spiritual Israel.
Mormons believe they are the 144,000

So, what is the truth?

[lifelongseeker]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

IdK who the 144,000 could be. I'm still trying to figure out this.

If the Synagogue of Satan, sons of Satan (Christ's words) are jews, who/where are the inhabitants of the land (Amorites...) who are so evil even the children must be killed?

And how is it ok that our Old Testament was written by Masorete Jews 1000 years after they rejected Him? Jeremiah 8:8
See below for contemporary texts

Masoretes -"𝑀𝑎𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑇𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛". Masoretic Text - "𝑡𝑒𝑥𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑇𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛" (Jewish Tanakh, from 1008BC) is our Old Testament.
Jeremiah 8:8

**500AD Talmud, child sex, unspeakable evils.
**1008AD Masoretic Text, our Old Testamemt
**Miamonides,1135AD
**Moses De León (Moshe ben Shem-Tov) born 1250AD, Jewish Kabbalist and presumably the author of the Sefer ha-Zohar (“Book of Splendour”), the most important work of Jewish mysticism;

These are quasi-satanic beliefs that form the foundations of the Chabad the leaders followers today.

[lifelongseeker]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

IdK who the 144,000 could be. I'm still trying to figure out this.
If the Synagogue of Satan, sons of Satan (Christ's words) are jews, who/where are the inhabitants of the land (Amorites...) who are so evil even the children must be killed?

And how is it ok that our Old Testament was written by Masorete Jews 1000 years after they rejected Him? Jeremiah 8:8
See below for contemporary texts

Masoretes -"𝑀𝑎𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑇𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛". Masoretic Text - "𝑡𝑒𝑥𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑇𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛" (Jewish Tanakh, from 1008BC) is our Old Testament.
Jeremiah 8:8

**500AD Talmud, child sex, unspeakable evils.
**1008AD Masoretic Text, our Old Testamemt
**Miamonides,1135AD
Moses De León (Moshe ben Shem-Tov) born 1250AD, Jewish Kabbalist and presumably the author of the Sefer ha-Zohar (“Book of Splendour”), the most important work of Jewish mysticism;

These are quasi-satanic beliefs that form the foundations of the Chabad the leaders followers today.

[placebofactor]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

IdK who the 144,000 could be. I'm still trying to figure out this.

If the Synagogue of Satan, sons of Satan (Christ's words) are jews, who/where are the inhabitants of the land (Amorites...) who are so evil even the children must be killed?

And how is it ok that our Old Testament was written by Masorete Jews 1000 years after they rejected Him? Jeremiah 8:8
See below for contemporary texts

Masoretes -"𝑀𝑎𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑇𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛". Masoretic Text - "𝑡𝑒𝑥𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑇𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛" (Jewish Tanakh, from 1008BC) is our Old Testament.
Jeremiah 8:8

**500AD Talmud, child sex, unspeakable evils.
**1008AD Masoretic Text, our Old Testamemt
**Miamonides,1135AD
**Moses De León (Moshe ben Shem-Tov) born 1250AD, Jewish Kabbalist and presumably the author of the Sefer ha-Zohar (“Book of Splendour”), the most important work of Jewish mysticism;

These are quasi-satanic beliefs that form the foundations of the Chabad the leaders followers today.

The problem with your post is that you appear to be throwing everyone, both Jews and Gentiles, believing and unbelieving, under the same bus. When Jesus was speaking of those who claim to be Jews but are not, he was speaking to the church of Ephesus and Sardis. Revelation 2:9, "I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, but thou art rich and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan."

Some 1900 years ago, there was a great deal of competition between the synagogues and churches, coupled with the Christians' claim that they were the true Israel, therefore certain Jews at Smyrna and elsewhere in the empire displayed hostility toward the Christians, slandering them, and at times giving the Roman authorities information against them. It is also regrettable that some Christians returned this hostility and developed an anti-Semitic view. Those accused by the Lord of being of the "synagogue of Satan were Jews by birth, but not spiritually. As the Jews more and more opposed Christianity, they became more rooted in the Gentile world. And so, the term "synagogue" was left to the Jews, and to the Christians, "Church."

Earlier in Jewish history, the Jewish theocracy was called in Numbers 16:3, 20:4, "the congregation (assembly) of the LORD." James was writing to the 12 tribes of Israel when he wrote in James 2:2,"For if there come unto your assembly ---."

So, the Jews who may have been in 'the church of God," now opposed the church, and their unbelief became the synagogue of Satan.

Concerning the Masorete Jews, we can discuss them later. We must also keep in mind, "The oracles of God have been left to the Jews, not the Gentiles."

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

IdK who the 144,000 could be. I'm still trying to figure out this.

The 144,000 are all of Christ's anointed followers that will join him in ruling over the earth.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

IdK who the 144,000 could be. I'm still trying to figure out this.

The 144,000 are all of Christ's anointed followers that will join him in ruling over the earth.

Yes, they are spiritual Israel, as Jesus and his Apostles made clear. Note Peter's letter to Christians in Asia: "You are a 'chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies' of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (I Peter 2:9,10)

James said: "Peter has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations, to take out of them a people for his name." (Acts 15:14)

[placebofactor]

The phrase Spiritual Israel is not in the Bible.

But the teaching /the idea **IS** ...

ROMANS 2: 28, 29

For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. But he is -- > a Jew <---who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart --- > by spirit < --- and not by a written code.

GALATIANS 6:16
... all those who walk orderly by this rule of conduct, peace and mercy be upon them, yes, upon the Israel of God..

GALATIANS 3:27-29

I don't believe you understand the meaning of the verse. Circumcision concerned only the Jewish population, not Gentiles. Paul was in Galatia the land of the Gentile, where the inhabitants were either Jews or new converts. Weak, or new Christians were easily swayed, so Paul was warning them against the Jews who were telling Christian Jews and Gentiles to get circumcised in their flesh, to save them from persecution.

.... There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman,+ there is neither male nor female,+ for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring , heirs with reference to a promise.

1 PETER 2:5
... you yourselves as living stones are being built up into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood...

Correct, I do not disagree with you, the verse is speaking about the church, consisting of Jews and Gentiles in Christ Jesus.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM , THE 144, 000 and .... SPIRITUAL ISRAEL

Placebofactor, so there IS mention of a spiritual Israel in the Bible. And this spiritual Israel is the Christian congregation, fully dedicated to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. Peter was writing to Christians when he penned IPeter 2:5. He went on:

"But you are a 'chosen race,' a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession....For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (IPeter 2:9,10)

So if you read all of IPeter 2:4-10 you will see that there certainly is a spiritual house.

Sorry, Peter was writing to the Jews (strangers) scattered throughout the Roman Empire. Gentiles are not strangers in their own land; Jews are.

[onewithhim]

The phrase Spiritual Israel is not in the Bible.

But the teaching /the idea **IS** ...

ROMANS 2: 28, 29

For he is not a Jew who is one on the outside, nor is circumcision something on the outside, on the flesh. But he is -- > a Jew <---who is one on the inside, and his circumcision is that of the heart --- > by spirit < --- and not by a written code.

GALATIANS 6:16
... all those who walk orderly by this rule of conduct, peace and mercy be upon them, yes, upon the Israel of God..

GALATIANS 3:27-29

I don't believe you understand the meaning of the verse. Circumcision concerned only the Jewish population, not Gentiles. Paul was in Galatia the land of the Gentile, where the inhabitants were either Jews or new converts. Weak, or new Christians were easily swayed, so Paul was warning them against the Jews who were telling Christian Jews and Gentiles to get circumcised in their flesh, to save them from persecution.

.... There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor freeman,+ there is neither male nor female,+ for you are all one in union with Christ Jesus. Moreover, if you belong to Christ, you are really Abraham’s offspring , heirs with reference to a promise.

1 PETER 2:5
... you yourselves as living stones are being built up into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood...

Correct, I do not disagree with you, the verse is speaking about the church, consisting of Jews and Gentiles in Christ Jesus.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

To learn more please go to other posts related to...

GOD'S KINGDOM , THE 144, 000 and .... SPIRITUAL ISRAEL

Placebofactor, so there IS mention of a spiritual Israel in the Bible. And this spiritual Israel is the Christian congregation, fully dedicated to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. Peter was writing to Christians when he penned IPeter 2:5. He went on:

"But you are a 'chosen race,' a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession....For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (IPeter 2:9,10)

So if you read all of IPeter 2:4-10 you will see that there certainly is a spiritual house.

Sorry, Peter was writing to the Jews (strangers) scattered throughout the Roman Empire. Gentiles are not strangers in their own land; Jews are.

Peter was clearly writing to Christians (whether they be Jews or Gentiles) in Asia. The Christian congregation is the new (spiritual) nation that God has made His special possession. The KJV uses the word "strangers" in IPeter 1:1, but that is misleading. The NASB, for instance, says: "To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen." How were they "aliens"? Because their home was in heaven. They were like aliens when on the earth because the earth was not their final destination.

[placebofactor]

But the teaching /the idea **IS** ...




Correct, I do not disagree with you, the verse is speaking about the church, consisting of Jews and Gentiles in Christ Jesus.

JEHOVAH'S WITNESS

Placebofactor, so there IS mention of a spiritual Israel in the Bible. And this spiritual Israel is the Christian congregation, fully dedicated to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. Peter was writing to Christians when he penned IPeter 2:5. He went on:

"But you are a 'chosen race,' a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession....For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (IPeter 2:9,10)

So if you read all of IPeter 2:4-10 you will see that there certainly is a spiritual house.

Sorry, Peter was writing to the Jews (strangers) scattered throughout the Roman Empire. Gentiles are not strangers in their own land; Jews are.

Peter was clearly writing to Christians (whether they be Jews or Gentiles) in Asia. The Christian congregation is the new (spiritual) nation that God has made His special possession. The KJV uses the word "strangers" in IPeter 1:1, but that is misleading. The NASB, for instance, says: "To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen." How were they "aliens"? Because their home was in heaven. They were like aliens when on the earth because the earth was not their final destination.

Sorry, Peter was writing to the Jews who lived in foreign lands. Peter speaks of Jesus as a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence. Jesus was never a stone of stumbling or a rock of offence to the Gentiles, only to the Jews.

1 Peter 2:12, "Having your (the Jews) conversation honest among the Gentiles.'

1 Peter 3:6, "Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord; whose daughter you are," Gentiles are not of the daughters of Abraham and Sara." Gentiles are adopted into the blessings.

Besides, Jesus commanded his apostles, Matthew 10:5, "Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter you not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Peter obeyed the Lord. When he went into the gentile lands, he went to the Jewish synagogues, or he wrote to the Jews in foreign countries. Paul and Barnabas were the apostles to the Gentiles.

Romans 11:13, Paul said, "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles," He is also the apostle of Jesus Christ."

Jesus said, Acts 9:15, concerning Paul, "For he (Paul) is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name (not the Father's name) before the Gentiles, and kings and the children of Israel."

[onewithhim]

Placebofactor, so there IS mention of a spiritual Israel in the Bible. And this spiritual Israel is the Christian congregation, fully dedicated to Jehovah God and Jesus Christ. Peter was writing to Christians when he penned IPeter 2:5. He went on:

"But you are a 'chosen race,' a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession....For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (IPeter 2:9,10)

So if you read all of IPeter 2:4-10 you will see that there certainly is a spiritual house.

Sorry, Peter was writing to the Jews (strangers) scattered throughout the Roman Empire. Gentiles are not strangers in their own land; Jews are.

Peter was clearly writing to Christians (whether they be Jews or Gentiles) in Asia. The Christian congregation is the new (spiritual) nation that God has made His special possession. The KJV uses the word "strangers" in IPeter 1:1, but that is misleading. The NASB, for instance, says: "To those who reside as aliens, scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, who are chosen." How were they "aliens"? Because their home was in heaven. They were like aliens when on the earth because the earth was not their final destination.

Sorry, Peter was writing to the Jews who lived in foreign lands. Peter speaks of Jesus as a stone of stumbling and a rock of offence. Jesus was never a stone of stumbling or a rock of offence to the Gentiles, only to the Jews.

Sorry, but, as I posted above, Peter was writing to Christians in Asia---Jews that had become believers, as well as Gentiles who had become believers. They comprised a "holy nation, a chosen race, a people for a special possession," since God "for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name." (Acts 15:14)

[Capbook]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

IdK who the 144,000 could be. I'm still trying to figure out this.

The 144,000 are all of Christ's anointed followers that will join him in ruling over the earth.

Yes, they are spiritual Israel, as Jesus and his Apostles made clear. Note Peter's letter to Christians in Asia: "You are a 'chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that you should declare abroad the excellencies' of the one that called you out of darkness into his wonderful light. For you were once not a people, but are now God's people." (I Peter 2:9,10)

James said: "Peter has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations, to take out of them a people for his name." (Acts 15:14)

Yes, one verse also mentioned who were the people of God. (Heb 4:9)