Spiritual Israel, or 144,000 Jews?

[placebofactor]

My question is, “Who are the 144,000?
Following is Jehovah’s promise to his people, Israel:

Ezekiel 37:21-28, "Thus saith the LORD God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen (Gentile nations) whither they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: (May 14, 1948) I will make them (12 Tribes) one nation --- they all shall have one shepherd (Jesus), they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, -----I (the LORD) will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant --- And the nations shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

A 7-year covenant of peace with Israel fulfills Daniel 9:27, Jesus is the covenant, and the messenger of the covenant.

Scriptures contain 29 lists of the 12 tribes of Israel in both the Old and New Testaments. Never are more than 12 tribes mentioned. When one tribe is left out, another is inserted, usually the tribe of Levi. From Levi came the priest.

Revelation 7 mentions 12 tribes numbering 144,000. Is there any justification for spiritualizing the number or the names of the tribes in these passages? Never in scripture are the 12 tribes represented as the church.
In Genesis 32:28, the Lord changes Jacob’s name to Israel. Jacob his earthly name, Israel his heavenly name. The 12 sons of Jacob were born of four mothers, Jacob being the common father. Leah and Rachel were Jacob’s wives, and Bilhah and Zilpah were his concubines.

In Exodus 28:21-29, 39:14, the 12 tribes were on the breastplate of the high priest, twelve precious stones arranged in four rows, each name engraved on a stone.

Raëlism, states that the chosen people, 144,000 will continue humanity in case of a disaster.
Jehovah’s Witnesses claim to be spiritual Israel.
Mormons believe they are the 144,000

So, what is the truth?

[placebofactor]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #28]

144,000 JWs! What a joke!

The JWs have been brainwshed for 100 years to believe that 144,000 of them went to heaven when they died.
Nothing could be further from the truth!
No JW will survive Armageddon and all the dead ones raised on Judgment Day will get their second deaths for being pagans, liar, idolaters.

Careful reading of Revelation indicates the 144,000 who will be killed during the Tribulation.

Let's leave the door open, the Lord hasn't closed it yet. And as long as the door remains open, there is hope a few will be saved from their Watchtower imprisonment.

[BrotherBerry]

Marke: There seems to be some confusion here. What do you think will be happening to the '144,000' when God destroys the universe that now is?

God is NOT going to destroy the the universe that now is, he is only going to destroy the wicked.

God will not destroy the wicked, angels will punish them, Matthew 13:49. Hope this helps. To learn more go to www.Gotquestions.org

[1213]

Marke: There seems to be some confusion here. What do you think will be happening to the '144,000' when God destroys the universe that now is?

God is NOT going to destroy the the universe that now is, he is only going to destroy the wicked.

God will not destroy the wicked, angels will punish them, Matthew 13:49. Hope this helps. To learn more go to www.Gotquestions.org

...and will throw them into the furnace of fire...
Matt. 13:49
...destroy both soul and body in Gehenna...
Matt. 10:28

Hope this helps

[JehovahsWitness]

God will not destroy the wicked ... To learn more go to www.Gotquestions.org

God is faithful to His word. He will destroy the wicked, and He holds “the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment” (2 Peter 2:9). But He has also promised that “the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord” (Romans 6:23b).

Emphasis MINE

• Psalm 145 v20 - English Standard Version
  The LORD [YHWH] preserves all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy.

God is ... going to destroy the wicked.

[onewithhim]

My question is, “Who are the 144,000?
Following is Jehovah’s promise to his people, Israel:

Ezekiel 37:21-28, "Thus saith the LORD God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen (Gentile nations) whither they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: (May 14, 1948) I will make them (12 Tribes) one nation --- they all shall have one shepherd (Jesus), they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, -----I (the LORD) will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant --- And the nations shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

A 7-year covenant of peace with Israel fulfills Daniel 9:27, Jesus is the covenant, and the messenger of the covenant.

Scriptures contain 29 lists of the 12 tribes of Israel in both the Old and New Testaments. Never are more than 12 tribes mentioned. When one tribe is left out, another is inserted, usually the tribe of Levi. From Levi came the priest.

Revelation 7 mentions 12 tribes numbering 144,000. Is there any justification for spiritualizing the number or the names of the tribes in these passages? Never in scripture are the 12 tribes represented as the church.
In Genesis 32:28, the Lord changes Jacob’s name to Israel. Jacob his earthly name, Israel his heavenly name. The 12 sons of Jacob were born of four mothers, Jacob being the common father. Leah and Rachel were Jacob’s wives, and Bilhah and Zilpah were his concubines.

In Exodus 28:21-29, 39:14, the 12 tribes were on the breastplate of the high priest, twelve precious stones arranged in four rows, each name engraved on a stone.

Raëlism, states that the chosen people, 144,000 will continue humanity in case of a disaster.
Jehovah’s Witnesses claim to be spiritual Israel.
Mormons believe they are the 144,000

So, what is the truth?

Marke: When God destroyed the world by water in Noah's day, He spared only 8 souls, not because those were the only souls destined to go to heaven, but because 8 souls were all He chose to continue life from pre-flood to post-flood. Likewise, God will select and spare 144,000 Jews to live through the tribulation as the rest of the human world is destroyed.

Almost comical. What about the scriptures that show that people will be living on the earth forever? And I dare say that it will be more than 144,000. In fact it is the 144,000 who will be reigning with Christ in heaven.

"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD [Jehovah], they shall inherit the earth....But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace." (Psalm 37: 9,11, KJV)

"The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever." (Psalm 37:29, KJV)

You have understood this in reverse. It is the 144,000 who will be in heaven to reign with Christ, and everyone else will live on the earth forever.

Marke: There seems to be some confusion here. What do you think will be happening to the '144,000' when God destroys the universe that now is?

What foolishness to believe that God will literally destroy the entire universe! That makes no kind of sense. He'll destroy every galaxy that exists because of what one man, Adam, did 6,000 years ago? Uh uh, never.

[onewithhim]

[Replying to JehovahsWitness in post #28]

144,000 JWs! What a joke!

The JWs have been brainwshed for 100 years to believe that 144,000 of them went to heaven when they died.
Nothing could be further from the truth!
No JW will survive Armageddon and all the dead ones raised on Judgment Day will get their second deaths for being pagans, liar, idolaters.

Careful reading of Revelation indicates the 144,000 who will be killed during the Tribulation.

I think it is true that you need to carefully read the book of Revelation (knowing that most of it is in symbols). It clearly states that the 144,000 will prevail, as at Rev. 7:3: "Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until after we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." Then it goes on to name the 144,000 out of the tribes of Israel (which turns out to be spiritual Israel). If the Bible says that they are "servants" of God, (1)why would they be destroyed? (2) And what does it mean that they were "sealed?"

[marke]

Marke: There seems to be some confusion here. What do you think will be happening to the '144,000' when God destroys the universe that now is?

God is NOT going to destroy the the universe that now is, he is only going to destroy the wicked.

God will not destroy the wicked, angels will punish them, Matthew 13:49. Hope this helps. To learn more go to www.Gotquestions.org

Marke:

Revelation 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

[marke]

My question is, “Who are the 144,000?
Following is Jehovah’s promise to his people, Israel:

Ezekiel 37:21-28, "Thus saith the LORD God; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen (Gentile nations) whither they are gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land: (May 14, 1948) I will make them (12 Tribes) one nation --- they all shall have one shepherd (Jesus), they shall also walk in my judgments, and observe my statutes, -----I (the LORD) will make a covenant of peace with them; it shall be an everlasting covenant --- And the nations shall know that I the LORD do sanctify Israel, when my sanctuary shall be in the midst of them for evermore."

A 7-year covenant of peace with Israel fulfills Daniel 9:27, Jesus is the covenant, and the messenger of the covenant.

Scriptures contain 29 lists of the 12 tribes of Israel in both the Old and New Testaments. Never are more than 12 tribes mentioned. When one tribe is left out, another is inserted, usually the tribe of Levi. From Levi came the priest.

Revelation 7 mentions 12 tribes numbering 144,000. Is there any justification for spiritualizing the number or the names of the tribes in these passages? Never in scripture are the 12 tribes represented as the church.
In Genesis 32:28, the Lord changes Jacob’s name to Israel. Jacob his earthly name, Israel his heavenly name. The 12 sons of Jacob were born of four mothers, Jacob being the common father. Leah and Rachel were Jacob’s wives, and Bilhah and Zilpah were his concubines.

In Exodus 28:21-29, 39:14, the 12 tribes were on the breastplate of the high priest, twelve precious stones arranged in four rows, each name engraved on a stone.

Raëlism, states that the chosen people, 144,000 will continue humanity in case of a disaster.
Jehovah’s Witnesses claim to be spiritual Israel.
Mormons believe they are the 144,000

So, what is the truth?

Marke: When God destroyed the world by water in Noah's day, He spared only 8 souls, not because those were the only souls destined to go to heaven, but because 8 souls were all He chose to continue life from pre-flood to post-flood. Likewise, God will select and spare 144,000 Jews to live through the tribulation as the rest of the human world is destroyed.

Almost comical. What about the scriptures that show that people will be living on the earth forever? And I dare say that it will be more than 144,000. In fact it is the 144,000 who will be reigning with Christ in heaven.

"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the LORD [Jehovah], they shall inherit the earth....But the meek shall inherit the earth; and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace." (Psalm 37: 9,11, KJV)

"The righteous shall inherit the land, and dwell therein forever." (Psalm 37:29, KJV)

You have understood this in reverse. It is the 144,000 who will be in heaven to reign with Christ, and everyone else will live on the earth forever.

Marke: There seems to be some confusion here. What do you think will be happening to the '144,000' when God destroys the universe that now is?

What foolishness to believe that God will literally destroy the entire universe! That makes no kind of sense. He'll destroy every galaxy that exists because of what one man, Adam, did 6,000 years ago? Uh uh, never.

Marke: God made the first heaven and earth so how hard will it be for Him to make a new heaven and earth?

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

[BrotherBerry]

Marke: There seems to be some confusion here. What do you think will be happening to the '144,000' when God destroys the universe that now is?

God is NOT going to destroy the the universe that now is, he is only going to destroy the wicked.

God will not destroy the wicked, angels will punish them, Matthew 13:49. Hope this helps. To learn more go to www.Gotquestions.org

Marke:

Revelation 11:18
And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

You're right.

I bow out

[lifelongseeker]

[Replying to placebofactor in post #1]

IdK who the 144,000 could be. I'm still trying to figure out this.
If the Synagogue of Satan, sons of Satan (Christ's words) are jews, who/where are the inhabitants of the land (Amorites...) who are so evil even the children must be killed?

And how is it ok that our Old Testament was written by Masorete Jews 1000 years after they rejected Him? Jeremiah 8:8

Masoretes -"𝑀𝑎𝑠𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑜𝑓 𝑇𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛". Masoretic Text - "𝑡𝑒𝑥𝑡 𝑜𝑓 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑇𝑟𝑎𝑑𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛" (Jewish Tanakh, from 1008BC) is our Old Testament.
Jeremiah 8:8