"Take my word for it, or his, or this book"

[Zzyzx]

Most of us probably know better than to believe everything said or written. If someone tells us they can fly by flapping their arms, our response is likely disbelief and a request that they ‘show me’. If they refuse to demonstrate or fail in flapping, we regard their claim as false. Agreed?

If a person claims to have come back to life after being dead for days none of us are likely to believe the claim unless it could be verified. Right?

If someone writes that fifty years ago a long-dead person came back to life and flew away into the sky, what would be your / our likely reaction? Would we be convinced if they say ‘many saw him’?

What would it take to convince us that the tale was true?

[JehovahsWitness]

'... But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - JESUS CHRIST

Did Jesus want people to "believe [Moses'] writings ? Yes or No?

As per the biblical account, I would say NO.

So Jesus wanted people to reject belief the writings of Moses?

Obviously, it's your opinion that says that, isn't it?

its not an opinion it's a QUESTION.

So.... did Jesus want the people of his day to reject or believe the writings of Moses?

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #288]

okay let's get back on track....

The Lord Jesus commanded us to make all people in the world disciples of His name, saying:

I am your Lord God, Almighty; follow my commandments ....

So you are to be a disciple maker, but how are you to fulfill that commission?

Share with everyone what the Lord has taught us.

Are you the one to inform people to "follow God's commandments"?

No, the Lord is the one who will tell you His commandments that you will put into practice since He is also the one who will tell you when you will be rewarded with salvation and eternal life.

If so how are they to know what God's commandments are? Surely your will have to repeat them or write them down? No?

See the above.

What can you read in my post if I do not present my words and the words we've heard and learned from God, which He allowed us to write for dissemination to all? They are all testimonies to the Lord, and they are not the ones who save but the Lord Himself alone.

Are you saying you heard God's words and you are repeating God's words to us?

As I have said, we share with everyone the Lord's teachings that we've heard and learned from Him.

Why are you repeating them, so that we believe the words and come to God or for some other reason ? please explain.

They are testimonies to the Lord that He exists; hence, you may decide to come to Him for your salvation and eternal life.

[OneJack]

'... But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words? - JESUS CHRIST

Did Jesus want people to "believe [Moses'] writings ? Yes or No?

As per the biblical account, I would say NO.

So Jesus wanted people to reject belief the writings of Moses?

Obviously, it's your opinion that says that, isn't it?

its not an opinion it's a QUESTION.

So.... did Jesus want the people of his day to reject or believe the writings of Moses?

Opinionated question.

[OneJack]

What a funny joke!!!!!! Why are you looking for the phrase 'not the bible' when, with or without it, the statement of the Lord still stands firm and consistent? Why are you so obsessed with the bible that it seems to be your life and everything?

Why are you so obsesed with your own writings are not God are they?

Am I? I'm not.

please strip you posts of your opinions (which matter not). Now you say that the writings of Moses are testimonies what did Jesus want, that people believed Moses testimonies or that people reject Moses testimonies (please don't bring the focus back to yourself again), try and focus on someone other than yourself for a little bit....

Testimonies to Jesus so that people may believe in Him, especially during that time when He came in the flesh.

[JehovahsWitness]

Testimonies to Jesus so that people may believe in Him, especially during that time when He came in the flesh.

“If you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” - JESUS CHRIST (John 5:46–47)

You STILL haven't answered the question: Did JESUS want people to believe the written "testimonies" of Moses? Yes or No. If "No" please provide the basis for your claim that Jesus words do NOT indicate a desire people believe what Moses had written.

NOTE A TESTIMONY is a formal, firsthand statement or declaration of truth, typically provided by a witness under oath in a court of law. It serves as evidence to establish facts, and can be offered orally or in writing

[JehovahsWitness]

What can you read in my post ... the words we've heard and learned from God, which He allowed us to write for dissemination to all? They are all testimonies to the Lord ...

Are you saying you heard God's words and you are repeating God's words to us?

As I have said, we share with everyone the Lord's teachings that we've heard and learned from Him.

You say you "heard" (that seems to convey the idea that sounds were captured by you through your hearing ) what did you hear? did you hear your "Lord" speak words? or was it music or vibrations or unidentifiable sounds that you "heard"?

.... the Lord is the one who will tell you His commandments

Did he tell you that? Show me verbatim where he said he will tell me what his commandments are.

[JehovahsWitness]

They are testimonies to the Lord that He exists; hence, you may decide to come to Him for your salvation and eternal life.

Okay...let's recap where we are with regard to written (or verbal) testimonies.

• You testify that it is impossible to say whether the writings of Moses are true because of not being personal eyewitesses of the events he recorded

• Jesus indicated people should believe the writings of Moses, even though they were not personal eyewitnesses of events; indeed Jesus said "Happy are those that have not seen and yet believe.

So we have a very fundamental contradiction between your testimony and the testimony of Jesus ( recorded by John) Yours is basically saying that something must be witnessed personally to be believed (you even cast doubts on the Prophet Moses because you were not an witness of his encounters) Jesus on the other hand encouraged people to read scripture and believe what is read to be true.

[JehovahsWitness]

Let's recap what you say your "role" is ...

You claim to be a "messenger" and that your role is to teach others what you have been taught. You do not however seem to have been taught anything that isn't already in the bible with one exception, you have been taught that God's word are NOT in scripture. You make a de facto claim that God's words are in your posts (you quote Almighty God verbatum) but you have been told that none of his words are in scripture.

What can you read in my post if I do not present my words and the words we've heard and learned from God, which He allowed us to write for dissemination to all? They are all testimonies to the Lord, and they are not the ones who save but the Lord Himself alone.

So your "message" is in direct contradiction of that of JESUS who equated written scripture with the spoken word of God. For example, in Gospel of Matthew 22:31–32 Jesus is recorded as saying ...

“Have you not read what was spoken to you by God:
‘I am the God of Abraham…’”

So Jesus here is indicating people could READ what God spoke (He was quoting from the bible book of Deuteronomy).

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to OneJack in post #293]

And finally a word on your attitude to scripture...

You claim God did have some words in the bible but they were ... LOST

Jesus stated clearly that quote "scripture cannot be broken"

with a little help for AI here is some background on the Greek of the above....

λυθῆναι (lythēnai)

“to be broken,” “loosed,” “annulled,” “set aside”

This is the key word.

It is the aorist passive infinitive of λύω (lyō).

The verb λύω has a broad semantic range:

loosen
untie
release
dissolve
invalidate
abolish
break apart

So your message (that scripture has been lost) is in direct contradiction to that of Jesus



CONCLUSION Do we believe your "spirit" that indicated God failed to ensure scripture was not "lost", that claimed that God never said anything in scripture and never instructed his words be written therein. Do we believe your "message" that everyone should open themselves up to the paranormal and seek contact with spirits (spiritism , a very dangerous game to play)

Or do we believe the eyewitness testimony of the Prophets and gospel writers that testify that Jesus affirmed the scripture of his day contained the sayings of God and that nothing and nobody can destroy break invalidate scripture We cannot accept BOTH because your "message" and "testimony" is in direct contradiction to those of Jesus as testified by the apostles.

[OneJack]

Testimonies to Jesus so that people may believe in Him, especially during that time when He came in the flesh.

“If you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote about me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?” - JESUS CHRIST (John 5:46–47)

You STILL haven't answered the question: Did JESUS want people to believe the written "testimonies" of Moses? Yes or No. If "No" please provide the basis for your claim that Jesus words do NOT indicate a desire people believe what Moses had written.

NOTE A TESTIMONY is a formal, firsthand statement or declaration of truth, typically provided by a witness under oath in a court of law. It serves as evidence to establish facts, and can be offered orally or in writing

Haven't you read that the Lord Jesus wanted the people to put their belief, per se, in Him because Moses wrote about Him. The people believed and put their hopes in Moses alone. The 'if' conditional statement of the Lord about Moses' writings does not, in this case, mean that the Lord wanted the people to put their belief in Moses' writings, per se, since they would not have life in Moses' writings if they did.