On Capitalization

[cnorman18]

A small matter that has bothered me for some time, not as a theist but as a grammarian, is the rather studied and deliberate manner in which some on this board refuse to spell the word "God" with a capital letter when it refers to the God of Christianity or Judaism.

When referring to multiple gods, e.g. the Greek gods, or to unspecified "gods" in general, the uncapitalized form is perfectly proper; but when referring, as is most commonly the case here, to the Judeo-Christian God, it ought to be spelled properly, as "God," because it is in effect a proper name. That practice does not indicate belief or even respect; that is simply the way it's spelled.

Muslims do not typically use that term, preferring "Allah," and I do not notice anyone refusing to capitalize that. Again, that's simply the way it's spelled. No one assumes it means you believe in Allah when you trouble to spell it right.

Refusing to capitalize the word strikes me as petty and more than a little childish, nothing more than a calculated bit of provocation and disrespect. And it's silly. After all, you don't even see the most irrational and wrongheaded of fundamentalists and YECs referring to "charles darwin."

The word is "God." Spell it properly. No one's going to mistake you for a Baptist.

Debate question is obvious. Someone's going to try to defend this bit of petty nonsense.

(For the record, "rabbi" is not capitalized, except when used as a personal title: "my rabbi," as opposed to "Rabbi Stein." "Jew" and "Jewish," on the other hand, are always capitalized, in any form or context, but "synagogue" is not.)

I once taught English as well as mathematics. You don't have to respect God, but you ought to respect the language.

[cnorman18]

"Y'all"--absolutely.

(Quite a useful word, actually, "y'all." There is no other word in English that clearly denotes the plural "you," now that "ye" is extinct.)

There is a first nations language which has 5 versions of the first person plural pronoun (we and us in English).

1. you and me
2. some other person and me
3. more than one other person and me
4. you, me and some other person
5. you, me and more than one other person

As we say in Texas: Holy Feces! (Well, we don't say it quite like that, but you get the drift.)

Useful, I suppose, but I'll bet the kids there hate their grammar classes even more than ours do.

[MagusYanam]

There is a first nations language which has 5 versions of the first person plural pronoun (we and us in English).

1. you and me
2. some other person and me
3. more than one other person and me
4. you, me and some other person
5. you, me and more than one other person

Likewise, in Chinese, 我们 (wo3 men) is a first-person plural exclusive (me and some other person/people, not you), whereas 咱们 (zan2 men) is a first-person plural inclusive (me, you and maybe some other person/people).

I think such distinctions can be useful, but it was kind of confusing to learn... Also, it's not really a hard-and-fast rule. I've heard some people use 我们 as a first-person plural inclusive.

[McCulloch]

I've moved this to the discussion forum rather than the debate forum. It is an interesting discussion but it has ceased to be a debate in any meaningful sense.

"Y'all"--absolutely.

(Quite a useful word, actually, "y'all." There is no other word in English that clearly denotes the plural "you," now that "ye" is extinct.)

Y'all would be a useful word if it were used consistently as the plural second person pronoun. However, I've met people who indiscriminately use it in the plural and the singular sense, thereby removing any distinction.

There is also a long-standing disagreement about whether y'all can have primarily singular reference. While y'all is generally used in the Southern United States as the plural form of "you" a scant but vocal minority (for example, Eric Hyman[6]) argue that the term can be used in the singular. Adding confusion to this issue is that observers attempting to judge usage may witness a single person addressed as y'all if the speaker implies in the reference other persons not present: "Have y'all [you and others] had dinner yet?" (to which the answer would be, "Yes, we have", even though a single person has answered.)

[cnorman18]

The only times I have ever heard "y'all" used in reference to a single individual were when a person who was not actually familiar with the dialect was affecting or imitating Southern speech.

Since it's basically a regional contraction of "you all" (which is also frequently heard), it invariably refers to more than one person--in my experience, at least, here in Texas. I can't speak to what denizens of the Deep South may do with it.

[Goat]

The only times I have ever heard "y'all" used in reference to a single individual were when a person who was not actually familiar with the dialect was affecting or imitating Southern speech.

Since it's basically a regional contraction of "you all" (which is also frequently heard), it invariably refers to more than one person--in my experience, at least, here in Texas. I can't speak to what denizens of the Deep South may do with it.

The difference between northern girls and southern girls.

Northern girls say 'you can'. Southern girls say 'Y'all can'

[cnorman18]

The only times I have ever heard "y'all" used in reference to a single individual were when a person who was not actually familiar with the dialect was affecting or imitating Southern speech.

Since it's basically a regional contraction of "you all" (which is also frequently heard), it invariably refers to more than one person--in my experience, at least, here in Texas. I can't speak to what denizens of the Deep South may do with it.

The difference between northern girls and southern girls.

Northern girls say 'you can'. Southern girls say 'Y'all can'

Hey, bwah! Yew talkin' 'bout my sistah, bwah? Ah'm gone stomp a mudhole in yew, 'n then ah'm gone stomp it dry! Yew gone look lahk the dawgs thawt yew wuz a bone 'n had yew unner th' house! Yew bettah watch out, bwah!

Call me multilingual.

[Goat]

The only times I have ever heard "y'all" used in reference to a single individual were when a person who was not actually familiar with the dialect was affecting or imitating Southern speech.

Since it's basically a regional contraction of "you all" (which is also frequently heard), it invariably refers to more than one person--in my experience, at least, here in Texas. I can't speak to what denizens of the Deep South may do with it.

The difference between northern girls and southern girls.

Northern girls say 'you can'. Southern girls say 'Y'all can'

Hey, bwah! Yew talkin' 'bout my sistah, bwah? Ah'm gone stomp a mudhole in yew, 'n then ah'm gone stomp it dry! Yew gone look lahk the dawgs thawt yew wuz a bone 'n had yew unner th' house! Yew bettah watch out, bwah!

Call me multilingual.

I know yankee jokes too

[Confused]

"Y'all"--absolutely.

(Quite a useful word, actually, "y'all." There is no other word in English that clearly denotes the plural "you," now that "ye" is extinct.)

There is a first nations language which has 5 versions of the first person plural pronoun (we and us in English).

1. you and [strike]me[/strike]
2. some other person and me
3. more than one other person and me
4. you, me and some other person
5. you, me and more than one other person

You and me placed in a sentence is incorrect useage of a pronoun. If you wrote:

"You and me are going to the store", it would be incorrect. "You and I are going to the store" is the correct pronoun to use.

[cnorman18]

"Y'all"--absolutely.

(Quite a useful word, actually, "y'all." There is no other word in English that clearly denotes the plural "you," now that "ye" is extinct.)

There is a first nations language which has 5 versions of the first person plural pronoun (we and us in English).

1. you and [strike]me[/strike]
2. some other person and me
3. more than one other person and me
4. you, me and some other person
5. you, me and more than one other person

You and me placed in a sentence is incorrect useage of a pronoun. If you wrote:

"You and me are going to the store", it would be incorrect. "You and I are going to the store" is the correct pronoun to use.

That is true if those pronouns are used in the nominative case, as in your examples. In the objective case, though, they are perfectly correct: "The boss sent for you and me."

The easiest way to distinguish which is correct is to mentally drop the "you and." "Me am going to the store" is obviously wrong, but so is "The boss sent for I."

(Former English teacher as well as math.)

[Confused]

"Y'all"--absolutely.

(Quite a useful word, actually, "y'all." There is no other word in English that clearly denotes the plural "you," now that "ye" is extinct.)

There is a first nations language which has 5 versions of the first person plural pronoun (we and us in English).

1. you and [strike]me[/strike]
2. some other person and me
3. more than one other person and me
4. you, me and some other person
5. you, me and more than one other person

You and me placed in a sentence is incorrect useage of a pronoun. If you wrote:

"You and me are going to the store", it would be incorrect. "You and I are going to the store" is the correct pronoun to use.

That is true if those pronouns are used in the nominative case, as in your examples. In the objective case, though, they are perfectly correct: "The boss sent for you and me."

The easiest way to distinguish which is correct is to mentally drop the "you and." "Me am going to the store" is obviously wrong, but so is "The boss sent for I."

(Former English teacher as well as math.)

I stand corrected. English grammar and spelling have to be the most messed up systems. For every rule there is an exception to the rule which has an exception to that rule and so on............................