The testimony of Jesus

[Revelations won]

Many people may believe in Jesus .

But what do the scriptures actually state what is required to have a "testimony" of Jesus?

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to OneJack in post #20]

The inspired Apostle Paul describes the church, @OneJack, as follows:

Eph 4:4  There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 
Eph 4:5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 
Eph 4:6  one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 
Eph 4:7  But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gift....
Eph 4:11  And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 
Eph 4:12  to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 
Eph 4:13  until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 
Eph 4:14  so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 

The word "denomination" is not a negative word, but not all of them are faithful to the Scriptures. The ones that are genuine demonstrate that they are the true churches that are true to the Bible, and there are also independent churches like the one I belong to who follow the Bible closely, which is my criterion for determining whether they follow God's guidelines in his Word.

[Ray the atheist]

[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #19]

God has humbled me by allowing four kinds of physical pain in my life for forty years now, @Ray the atheist.

When I read the words " God has humbled me", I think of the experience of having one's pride or ego reduced, often through a reality check that highlights your limitations or human fallibility. It involves shifting from a position of perceived superiority to a more realistic, modest understanding of your place in the world.

So, I think you are telling me that you were arrogant and that God wanted to teach you humility by causing forty years of physical pain.

When I think of my 6 year old grandson, I think that I don't at all use any pain to teach him valuable life lessons.
I do it gently, clearly, in a manner that he can understand, and with love.

When I am done with the lesson, and I know that he got it, we are both extremely happy.
I feel for young kids who are taught through brutality, through neglect, and are allowed to suffer for purely didactic reasons.

I was brutalized as a young child, and I know what it's like to be taught those hard lessons.

I think that you are telling us that it took you 40 years of suffering to learn that it's best to be humble than arrogant.
I'm wondering if you are humble now, and I'm also wondering if your 40 years of pain has ended.

I hope that you are humble enough to be rid of your pain once and for all.


God bless.

[OneJack]

[Replying to OneJack in post #20]

The inspired Apostle Paul describes the church, @OneJack, as follows:

Eph 4:4  There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to the one hope that belongs to your call— 
Eph 4:5  one Lord, one faith, one baptism, 
Eph 4:6  one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. 
Eph 4:7  But grace was given to each one of us according to the measure of Christ's gift....
Eph 4:11  And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, 
Eph 4:12  to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, 
Eph 4:13  until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ, 
Eph 4:14  so that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. 

The word "denomination" is not a negative word, but not all of them are faithful to the Scriptures. The ones that are genuine demonstrate that they are the true churches that are true to the Bible, and there are also independent churches like the one I belong to who follow the Bible closely, which is my criterion for determining whether they follow God's guidelines in his Word.

Paul is not Christ. Better take it from Christ, who said, 'But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers.'

What's your point in bringing up verses from the letters of Paul to the Ephesians?

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to Ray the atheist in post #22]

@Ray the atheist, no, my pain persists, but God has been merciful to give me several ways to keep its intensity low.

I was a pastor preaching and teaching the Bible at the time I began my ministry when seven years of major depression brought me down to the depths of that disease. At that point, God allowed me to have pain (he didn't cause it) to keep me from being proud of his gifts of preaching and teaching.

Now, for the last 17 years, during my retirement from being a pastor, God has called me to be a writer, now a published author, which I could also be proud of, but I know that he has given me the gift of creativity through writing.

In addition, about 13 years after the onset of my pain, I was getting tired again just as I was when I was depressed. I asked God what I was depressed about, and the clear thought came to me that it was because of the pain. Well, I had it out with God by telling him that I didn't want it in my life.

It took 60 lamenting prayers before God gave me his peace to accept pain as part of my life. God lifted that huge burden of anger from my life then, for which I am extremely thankful to him. God has healed me from depression for 39 years but has permitted pain to remain.

My pain is like the Apostle Paul's "thorn in the flesh" that he also asked God to remove in 2 Corinthians 12:7-10:

2Co 12:7  So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 
2Co 12:8  Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 
2Co 12:9  But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 
2Co 12:10  For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong. 

[Ray the atheist]

[Replying to Ray the atheist in post #22]

At that point, God allowed me to have pain (he didn't cause it) to keep me from being proud of his gifts of preaching and teaching.
_________________________________________________

An all-powerful god could have caused your pain.
An all-knowing god would know that it was best for you.
An all-loving god would have wanted what was best for you.

Your god wanted you to learn some humility.

Your God didn't have to wait for whatever ails you to happen by chance.
Maybe his humility lesson was far too important to leave your learning humility to the vagaries nature.

You did say he allowed you to suffer.. he could have caused your ailments and allowed you to suffer the pain. That would be more efficient than leaving it to chance.

Your god could have prevented 40 years of pain in the hopes that you might learn something valuable. He could have shown up in all his glory and commanded you to be more humble. God seems to have no problem commanding people to bend to his will.

He can be quite theatrical about it, too.
A talking burning bush is quite remarkable.

As a faithful, trusting Christian, Im sure you would have obeyed that commandment. After all, you probably follow at least 10 of his commands.

How do you know that he didn't cause 40 years of pain in you for your education?

[BruceLeiter]

[Replying to Ray the atheist in post #25]

First, @Ray the atheist, you talk about God as if he has human characteristics, and you second guess him a lot. I don't.

Second, I agree with Paul's passage in which he describes his "thorn in the flesh" as a "messenger of Satan."

Third, a good human father exercises tough and tender love. It's tough love in establishing and enforcing limits for his children; it's tender love when he cares for their needs. God does both for me in my experiences of pain. My depression was really repressed anger over his allowing our second child to die from leukemia when I was "running away" from his call to be a pastor along with many other losses I experienced in my first 43 years of life.

If your interested in his work in my life, you can "read all about it" in my book What God Has Done: My True, Dramatic God-Biography (Amazon).

[Ray the atheist]

[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #26]

First, @Ray the atheist, you talk about God as if he has human characteristics, and you second guess him a lot. I don't.

The God of the bible has many human characteristics.

[Ray the atheist]

[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #26]

Second, I agree with Paul's passage in which he describes his "thorn in the flesh" as a "messenger of Satan."

Your God caused you to have pain, that's very much like a thorn in the flesh.
Satan can't defeat God, so if God want's to remove Satan from existence, it's as easy as saying one word to an all powerful god.

Of course, your God has planned for you to suffer for 40 years.
You are commanded to thank him for that, and I truly hope that you have learned your lesson.

I'd hate to have you suffer more.

[Ray the atheist]

[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #26]

Third, a good human father exercises tough and tender love.

I don't approve of your parenting style.

[Ray the atheist]

[Replying to BruceLeiter in post #26]

If your interested in his work in my life, you can "read all about it" in my book What God Has Done: My True, Dramatic God-Biography (Amazon).

Thanks for the sales pitch