Why don't most Muslims engage in Jihad?
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Why don't most Muslims engage in Jihad?
Post #1To the best of my knowledge, it says in the Koran(or however you want to spell it) that infidels should be put to the sword. However, my knowledge of it ends just about there, so I'm just asking an honest question: Why don't most Muslims go around killing non-Muslims? Or, at the very least, those that refuse to convert once they're tought about it? After all, Muhammed himself waged holy wars.
Post #21
Bernee: "They are encouraging violence by encouraging people to renounce their beliefs and their culture. For what? A different fairy story to the one already believed."
AA: That is a patently intolerant statement.
Bernee: "Just by being there they are inciting violence."
AA: Are you supporting the violent, or, silencing Christians?
Bernee: Spoken from your safe middle class elitist home in the good ol USofA. You should get out more and get some real information rather that the propaganda you get on your christian radio, TV and web-sites.
AA: From what you are stating, Christian TV and radio has reported very accurately. From what I have seen and read in other places agrees with the plight of Christians worldwide and in the "good ol'" US as well.
Bernee: "Your opinons have shown you have no understanding of the word 'tolerance'."
AA: Your assertions prove that you don't see to understand that most people fed by Christians do not become Christians. You do live in India don't you? You have made it clear that you are intolerant of Christian missionaries. You somehow have painted them as the victimizer because they want to tell a fairy tale and get people to believe it. Yet, their fairy tale does not allow adherents to murder or force anyone to believe the fairy tale by what is written in the fairy tale. Doesn't seem very threatening to me. And in fact, it isn't. No AK-47 wielding missionaries I know of. Do you see that in India?
First, the elitist's in America are the atheist-evolutionist professors and Liberal-Progressives. You should know that.
Second, you are being intolerant of my views and very judgmental of whatever it is you think I am. The middle class in America are the Liberal-Progressives who own the $500,000-plus homes in every Liberal state in the US. States where no poor person lives in anything but rentals owned by guess who? Call someone who lives in Washington DC making less than a six-figure salary (gotta go to expensive colleges for that) if they can buy a home in a good neighborhood? The educated elitists who believe in evolution are in the nice homes in the safe neighborhoods. How "appropriate" though. Survival of the fittest?
Once again you see Christians doing what they should.
I am not an Evangelist. Missionaries are. You are right about my position geographically, but, you're misinformed about Christianity, and, what it now takes in America to be middle class.
By the way, if "it" is a different "fairy story" than what's the problem with switching?
Christians do not kill their family members that take another religious or ideological path. They never cease to pray for and try to convince the lost sheep to return, but if you know anything about the parable of the lost sheep, it was to return it alive and well, to the fold!
Jesus is amazing.
AA: That is a patently intolerant statement.
Bernee: "Just by being there they are inciting violence."
AA: Are you supporting the violent, or, silencing Christians?
Bernee: Spoken from your safe middle class elitist home in the good ol USofA. You should get out more and get some real information rather that the propaganda you get on your christian radio, TV and web-sites.
AA: From what you are stating, Christian TV and radio has reported very accurately. From what I have seen and read in other places agrees with the plight of Christians worldwide and in the "good ol'" US as well.
Bernee: "Your opinons have shown you have no understanding of the word 'tolerance'."
AA: Your assertions prove that you don't see to understand that most people fed by Christians do not become Christians. You do live in India don't you? You have made it clear that you are intolerant of Christian missionaries. You somehow have painted them as the victimizer because they want to tell a fairy tale and get people to believe it. Yet, their fairy tale does not allow adherents to murder or force anyone to believe the fairy tale by what is written in the fairy tale. Doesn't seem very threatening to me. And in fact, it isn't. No AK-47 wielding missionaries I know of. Do you see that in India?
First, the elitist's in America are the atheist-evolutionist professors and Liberal-Progressives. You should know that.
Second, you are being intolerant of my views and very judgmental of whatever it is you think I am. The middle class in America are the Liberal-Progressives who own the $500,000-plus homes in every Liberal state in the US. States where no poor person lives in anything but rentals owned by guess who? Call someone who lives in Washington DC making less than a six-figure salary (gotta go to expensive colleges for that) if they can buy a home in a good neighborhood? The educated elitists who believe in evolution are in the nice homes in the safe neighborhoods. How "appropriate" though. Survival of the fittest?
Once again you see Christians doing what they should.
I am not an Evangelist. Missionaries are. You are right about my position geographically, but, you're misinformed about Christianity, and, what it now takes in America to be middle class.
By the way, if "it" is a different "fairy story" than what's the problem with switching?
Christians do not kill their family members that take another religious or ideological path. They never cease to pray for and try to convince the lost sheep to return, but if you know anything about the parable of the lost sheep, it was to return it alive and well, to the fold!
Jesus is amazing.
Post #22
Many in India are poor. By poor, I mean totally impoverished, often at or below subsistence level. The villages rely on each other just to survive. Any little blip cab disrupt the life of the entire community.AlAyeti wrote:
By the way, if "it" is a different "fairy story" than what's the problem with switching?
Along come the cashed up christian missionaries - cashed up from donations from people such as yourself who are told thy are doing these poor folk a favour.
They use the promise of jobs, food etc to entice the villagers to reflect on the value of christianity. Some accept, many don't. Division is created and the very heart of the village has been torn out. The system which keeps them alive - support of each other - is disrupted by the invasion of your religion.
Soem people react unfavourably to their lives and livelihoods being destroyed.
And you ask why a religion of conversion is a religion of violence.
No more amazing than the other myriad myths in the human experiece.AlAyeti wrote: Jesus is amazing.
Post #23
I don't mind your vitriolic tones directed at me from time to time.
But this?
"Along come the cashed up christian missionaries - cashed up from donations from people such as yourself who are told thy are doing these poor folk a favour.
They use the promise of jobs, food etc to entice the villagers to reflect on the value of christianity. Some accept, many don't. Division is created and the very heart of the village has been torn out. The system which keeps them alive - support of each other - is disrupted by the invasion of your religion."
/ / /
"Some accept many don't."
That is called freedom. Please tell me where the Christian missionaries kill the "many" that don't covert?
Why can't a person become a Christian and remain in the village? Why such intolerance of peaceful people? You Bernee, an Atheist, are welcome in my neighborhood anytime. We may have spirited debates, but I will not harm you or cast you out!
I'm a bad person for sending my money to "cash up" missionaries who are beaten, imprisoned and killed for wanting to take my money and feed the poor?
You had better start sending your money to anti-Christian contractors to build prisons and gallows. God calls a missionary to their work. Persecution and death is nothing that will stop a missionary. You better look into a lot of prisons. Then again, that will provide jobs for all of those poor non-Christian people let alone to "not accept."
And maybe that is God's plan to take care of the poor in India. The blood of Christian martyrs has been the foundation of several great societies.
Though some can justify the killing of Christians because the thought of God is impossible to understand let alone someone being "called" to do something by God, and others can kill Christians because another god tells them to do it, I feel the question that begs to be asked is. . . why, in a country of hundreds of millions of people, why, can't the poor find relief?
A Christian is the bad guy for wanting to do something about the suffering of strangers in a strange land, and inviting others to become Christians and peaceful benefactors is horrible?
Something is wrong with this picture.
Please send me to websites showing "Christian" missionaries beheading those that didn't "accept" their "religion." Or even forcing believers or non-believers to leave their village, family or friends.
I believe we will find that the concept of "Jihad," though not existing in the words of Jesus, means a whole other kind of struggle for a Christian.
Isn't the goal of Christian missionaries to make more Christians to feed even more of the hungry and needy?
By the way, "that" is a main theme to the Bible. If you have a Bible (Darwin forbid!), read up in Ezekiel about the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah. I know, I know, I know, they are myths to you, but the whole caring about the poor and needy thing, comes into sharp relief.
But this?
"Along come the cashed up christian missionaries - cashed up from donations from people such as yourself who are told thy are doing these poor folk a favour.
They use the promise of jobs, food etc to entice the villagers to reflect on the value of christianity. Some accept, many don't. Division is created and the very heart of the village has been torn out. The system which keeps them alive - support of each other - is disrupted by the invasion of your religion."
/ / /
"Some accept many don't."
That is called freedom. Please tell me where the Christian missionaries kill the "many" that don't covert?
Why can't a person become a Christian and remain in the village? Why such intolerance of peaceful people? You Bernee, an Atheist, are welcome in my neighborhood anytime. We may have spirited debates, but I will not harm you or cast you out!
I'm a bad person for sending my money to "cash up" missionaries who are beaten, imprisoned and killed for wanting to take my money and feed the poor?
You had better start sending your money to anti-Christian contractors to build prisons and gallows. God calls a missionary to their work. Persecution and death is nothing that will stop a missionary. You better look into a lot of prisons. Then again, that will provide jobs for all of those poor non-Christian people let alone to "not accept."
And maybe that is God's plan to take care of the poor in India. The blood of Christian martyrs has been the foundation of several great societies.
Though some can justify the killing of Christians because the thought of God is impossible to understand let alone someone being "called" to do something by God, and others can kill Christians because another god tells them to do it, I feel the question that begs to be asked is. . . why, in a country of hundreds of millions of people, why, can't the poor find relief?
A Christian is the bad guy for wanting to do something about the suffering of strangers in a strange land, and inviting others to become Christians and peaceful benefactors is horrible?
Something is wrong with this picture.
Please send me to websites showing "Christian" missionaries beheading those that didn't "accept" their "religion." Or even forcing believers or non-believers to leave their village, family or friends.
I believe we will find that the concept of "Jihad," though not existing in the words of Jesus, means a whole other kind of struggle for a Christian.
Isn't the goal of Christian missionaries to make more Christians to feed even more of the hungry and needy?
By the way, "that" is a main theme to the Bible. If you have a Bible (Darwin forbid!), read up in Ezekiel about the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah. I know, I know, I know, they are myths to you, but the whole caring about the poor and needy thing, comes into sharp relief.
Last edited by AlAyeti on Sun Jun 19, 2005 3:47 am, edited 3 times in total.
Post #24
Bernee,
The values of Christianity?
"Love your nieghbor as yourself and do good to those that persecute you."
There are others that pretty much mean do nice to everyone. But, with follow up advice about staying away from nasty people and nasty things, or better yet, becoming like them.
The values of Christianity?
Please list the bad ones?
The values of Christianity?
"Love your nieghbor as yourself and do good to those that persecute you."
There are others that pretty much mean do nice to everyone. But, with follow up advice about staying away from nasty people and nasty things, or better yet, becoming like them.
The values of Christianity?
Please list the bad ones?
Post #25
Please point out the vitriol.AlAyeti wrote:I don't mind your vitriolic tones directed at me from time to time.
But this?
"Along come the cashed up christian missionaries - cashed up from donations from people such as yourself who are told thy are doing these poor folk a favour.
Stop playing the victim. You have constantly made out that christians are 'victims' - now you are doing it about yourself.
You have no idea do you? This is not some suburban prayer meeting we are talking about. These people depend on each other for their very survival. Christianity, whether you like it or not, and whether it is the christians or non-christians who are to 'blame', drives a wedge between families in the village and within families.AlAyeti wrote: That is called freedom. Please tell me where the Christian missionaries kill the "many" that don't covert?
Why can't a person become a Christian and remain in the village? Why such intoleranec of peaceful people?
These families have lived for centuries in a situationof co- and inter-dependence. That is destroyed by the conversions. That destoys the very fabric on which these communities are built.
That is the violence.
And the same goes for the Indian villages I have visited.AlAyeti wrote: You Bernee, an Atheist, are welcome in my neighborhood anytime. We may have sprited debates, but I will not harm you or cast you out!
The can feed the poor all they like - as long as their are no strings attached.AlAyeti wrote: I'm a bad person for sending my money to "cash up" missionaries who are beaten, imprisoned and killed for wanting to take my money and feed the poor?
And what is that supposed to mean.? It is a total non-sequitor.AlAyeti wrote: You had better start sending your money to anti-Christian contractors to build prisons and gallows.
India has been (and contimues to be) a 'great society' long before your version of god got involved.AlAyeti wrote: And maybe that is God's plan to take care of the poor in India. The blood of Christian martyrs has been the creation of several great societies.
The ancestors of these people were talking of 'god' 3000 years before Christ.AlAyeti wrote: Though some can justify the killing of Christians because the thought of God is impossible..
Just because they don't believe in your god doesn't make them atheists. If that is the case so must you be because you do not believe in their version of god.
No a christian, such as your self, is the 'bad guy' because of the ignorance you display to the cultural realities of anyone other than youself and like believers.AlAyeti wrote: A Christian is the bad guy for wanting to do something about the suffering of strangers in a strange land, and inviting others to become Christians and peaceful benefactors is horrible?
At last - something we agree upon.AlAyeti wrote: Something is wrong with this picture.
"Whatever you are totally ignorant of, assert to be the explanation of everything else"
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
William James quoting Dr. Hodgson
"When I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two."
Nisargadatta Maharaj
Post #26
I don't need a bible for this sort of information.AlAyeti wrote: If you have a Bible (Darwin forbid!), read up in Ezekiel about the sins of Sodom and Gomorrah. I know, I know, I know, they are myths to you, but the whole caring about the poor and needy thing, comes into sharp relief.
It comes with being human and being willing and able to honestly explore the true nature of the self.
This is something you are clearly unwilling and unable to do - you defer to the directives of a mythological god who's 'word' is contained in a book of mythology and allegory.
It is fundamentals, of all persuasions, who are the real danger to the peace and well being of humanity.
Post #27
Bernee,
This is not vitriolic?
"Along come the cashed up christian missionaries - cashed up from donations from people such as yourself who are told thy are doing these poor folk a favour.
They use the promise of jobs, food etc to entice the villagers to reflect on the value of christianity. Some accept, many don't. Division is created and the very heart of the village has been torn out. The system which keeps them alive - support of each other - is disrupted by the invasion of your religion."
"Some accept, many don't."
Your position is fine about Christianty as "religion" is viewed by an Atheist, (and therefore religion being unimportant or whatever) but the way you formed those sentences was in my opinoin almost a perfect representation of vitriol.
We have descended into oneupmanship.
I am sorry for that.
This is not vitriolic?
"Along come the cashed up christian missionaries - cashed up from donations from people such as yourself who are told thy are doing these poor folk a favour.
They use the promise of jobs, food etc to entice the villagers to reflect on the value of christianity. Some accept, many don't. Division is created and the very heart of the village has been torn out. The system which keeps them alive - support of each other - is disrupted by the invasion of your religion."
"Some accept, many don't."
Your position is fine about Christianty as "religion" is viewed by an Atheist, (and therefore religion being unimportant or whatever) but the way you formed those sentences was in my opinoin almost a perfect representation of vitriol.
We have descended into oneupmanship.
I am sorry for that.
Post #28
Bernee: "This is something you are clearly unwilling and unable to do - you defer to the directives of a mythological god who's 'word' is contained in a book of mythology and allegory.
It is fundamentals, of all persuasions, who are the real danger to the peace and well being of humanity."
/ / /
That last sentence sounds very familiar. Richard Dawkins maybe?
I, time and again, use science and empiricism, to present my position on things that really kill, like "Jihad," abortion and homosexuality and evolutionary belief systems.
No mythology is used for my position. Just cold hard facts of observation.
Your position seems the one based on emotions overriding what can be clearly seen by evidence.
History has judged Islam as anything BUT the religion of peace, and Jihad certainly is not introspective.
We now have DNA and Ultra Sound technology to show the human condition inside and outside the womb.
We can clearly view the workings of the human anatomy by scientific determination. Sexuality is an observable absolute. Aberration is also an absolute.
We can certainly see from history (that has "nothing" to do with the Bible), the outcome that evolution cannot be the foundation of a moral stance on anything, but the strongest winning over the weak.
Look at what it has done for the unborn and the children born of godless sexual licentiousness. And of course the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki suffered at the hands of scientists, so, I guess I'm stuck on my position to use science as my guide to truth. And let us not forget the human monsters produced by the secular professionals of Chernobyl.
I left my Bible in the other room.
It is fundamentals, of all persuasions, who are the real danger to the peace and well being of humanity."
/ / /
That last sentence sounds very familiar. Richard Dawkins maybe?
I, time and again, use science and empiricism, to present my position on things that really kill, like "Jihad," abortion and homosexuality and evolutionary belief systems.
No mythology is used for my position. Just cold hard facts of observation.
Your position seems the one based on emotions overriding what can be clearly seen by evidence.
History has judged Islam as anything BUT the religion of peace, and Jihad certainly is not introspective.
We now have DNA and Ultra Sound technology to show the human condition inside and outside the womb.
We can clearly view the workings of the human anatomy by scientific determination. Sexuality is an observable absolute. Aberration is also an absolute.
We can certainly see from history (that has "nothing" to do with the Bible), the outcome that evolution cannot be the foundation of a moral stance on anything, but the strongest winning over the weak.
Look at what it has done for the unborn and the children born of godless sexual licentiousness. And of course the people of Hiroshima and Nagasaki suffered at the hands of scientists, so, I guess I'm stuck on my position to use science as my guide to truth. And let us not forget the human monsters produced by the secular professionals of Chernobyl.
I left my Bible in the other room.
Post #29
Bernee: "No a christian, such as your self, is the 'bad guy' because of the ignorance you display to the cultural realities of anyone other than youself and like believers."
Bernee, did you forget that you wrote that you observed, "some accept many do not."
You seem totally ignorant of "Christianity."
It is because I am NOT ignorant of the suffering of others that I support missionaries whenever I can. Jesus is wonderful to me as I am no longer in a condition of suffering because of Him freeing me. Why would I want to be silent on that? Let people have free will to believe what they want. You are certainly a proselytizer of Atheism. That is why you are here at debatingchristianity.com. I think that is your right of free will. I am not claiming you have to be silent. Give others the same right you have to free speech. Especially if they are willing to endure imprisonment, torture and death, while doing good tothose that persecute them. You can't at least, respect that?
The above (some do, some don't) is the expected equation of "conversions." And proves that Christians are very tolerant indeed. In fact Christians no where in the Bible are told to force anyone. There is no Sharia law type, in the Gospels. But, evangelists have to do what God tells them to do. Have you (I asked) ever witnessed Christians murder those that would not convert?
I would certainly not only NOT send my finacial support, but I will stand against these kinds of anti-Christians the same way I do against homosexual pedophiles in the clergy.
Bernee, did you forget that you wrote that you observed, "some accept many do not."
You seem totally ignorant of "Christianity."
It is because I am NOT ignorant of the suffering of others that I support missionaries whenever I can. Jesus is wonderful to me as I am no longer in a condition of suffering because of Him freeing me. Why would I want to be silent on that? Let people have free will to believe what they want. You are certainly a proselytizer of Atheism. That is why you are here at debatingchristianity.com. I think that is your right of free will. I am not claiming you have to be silent. Give others the same right you have to free speech. Especially if they are willing to endure imprisonment, torture and death, while doing good tothose that persecute them. You can't at least, respect that?
The above (some do, some don't) is the expected equation of "conversions." And proves that Christians are very tolerant indeed. In fact Christians no where in the Bible are told to force anyone. There is no Sharia law type, in the Gospels. But, evangelists have to do what God tells them to do. Have you (I asked) ever witnessed Christians murder those that would not convert?
I would certainly not only NOT send my finacial support, but I will stand against these kinds of anti-Christians the same way I do against homosexual pedophiles in the clergy.
Post #30
No it isn't. Your understanding of the english language has oft been suspect and this is no exception.AlAyeti wrote:Bernee,
This is not vitriolic?
"Along come the cashed up christian missionaries - cashed up from donations from people such as yourself who are told thy are doing these poor folk a favour.
They use the promise of jobs, food etc to entice the villagers to reflect on the value of christianity. Some accept, many don't. Division is created and the very heart of the village has been torn out. The system which keeps them alive - support of each other - is disrupted by the invasion of your religion."
Vitriol: Bitterly abusive feeling or expression.
I have not been abusive of bitter...merely pointing out the empirical reality of christian conversions in villages in India.
