A VISION ... PARALLEL TO THE HORIZON OF TRUTH

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Hugh
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A VISION ... PARALLEL TO THE HORIZON OF TRUTH

Post #1

Post by Hugh »

500 YEARS AGO – Visionaries envisioned that someday boxes shall have sound, steel shall float and fly. . Now verified.
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Less than 100 YEARS AGO – it was rumored that mankind shall go to moon. General reaction of Traditional Faith Believers … “ Baloney !!! … No human can fathom God’s mystery … no way” …. But when mankind landed on Moon … those Baloney was buried on the ground.
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Now … Traditional Faith Believers insisted on their ambiguous and gobbledygook dogma … until days to come that they too be buried with their religious anathema.
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VENTURING UNTO THE ORIGIN OF THE UNIVERSE
Our universe is a mess — a colossal "cosmic web" of galaxies strung into filaments and tendrils that are millions or billions of light-years long.
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Although this web's basic structure is resolved, astronomers say understanding it in more detail requires new observatories, better computing and a lot of luck.
"When you look into a large telescope, the reality of the cosmic web hits you in the face because you can see how galaxies are organized," said Rodrigo Ibata, an astronomer at the Observatoire Astronomique de Strasbourg in France. "We have clear evidence for the cosmic web's existence, but there is still so much we don't know about it."
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Ibata explained that the cosmic web filaments are held together by dark matter, unseen stuff that makes up 85 percent of all mass in the universe.
"It's intrinsically tough to study something you can't see, so dark matter makes understanding the cosmic web an exceedingly difficult challenge," Ibata told SPACE.com.
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Ibata and other astronomers detail some of the cosmic web's mysteries last week in the journal Science.
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Intergalactic Highway
The cosmic web is thought to funnel galaxies, gas and dark matter around the universe, something like a chaotic intergalactic highway. Ibata said he's looking to our own celestial neighborhood for effects of this network.
"We think cosmic web tendrils feed directly into galaxies, dump matter onto them and build them up," Ibata said.
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Ibata hopes new star data gathered by the European Space Agency's GAIA spacecraft, set to launch in 2011, will help gather evidence of such activity near the Milky Way.
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"It's going to make things very interesting over the coming years," he said of GAIA, which will finely measure the distances and movements of more than a billion local stars. Such data could reveal where — and what — cosmic web tendrils might be spilling into our neck of the celestial woods.
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"The environment within these tendrils could be one of the most important factors in galaxy formation," Ibata said.
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To use mountains of data that GAIA and other observatories are expected to deliver in the future, however, Ibata said computer technology will have to catch up. "If we were to get such data now, we wouldn't be able to efficiently process it," he said.
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Simulating the Universe

Claude-Andre Faucher-Giguere, a graduate student in astrophysics at Harvard University, agrees.
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"We need powerful computers to deal with raw astronomy data," Faucher-Giguere said. "But another aspect is that once it's processed, we need to be able to learn something from it."
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Faucher-Giguere said computer simulations help with the task by giving astronomers grounds for comparison. If a simulation fits a set of observations, it helps astronomers pick the best theoretical track to explain what they see.
Our current big-picture view of the universe is based mostly on optical light, Faucher-Giguere said, but new observatories will look deep into the cosmos in wavelengths such as infrared and radio.
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"We'll need new, better simulations to make sense of data we haven't yet learned how to analyze," he said. "We need to be prepared or else we won't know what we're looking at."
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Faucher-Giguere expects astronomers to increasingly team up with computer-savvy theoreticians to extract the latest knowledge about our universe in an efficient way.
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"Astronomy is driven by new observations," he said, "but to make use of these new windows onto the universe, we really have to keep up with the theoretical work."

:roll: :roll: :roll:

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catholic crusader
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Post #11

Post by catholic crusader »

How much data do you want?
You havn't presented any absolute evidence that no christ person existed.

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Post #12

Post by Cathar1950 »

catholic crusader wrote:
How much data do you want?
You havn't presented any.
We have other threads on the subject.
I am not sure you understand whay we mean by myth.
I am thinking of anthorpology and such not some meaning where myth means it is false.

There is no question it is myth as it is a story or stories with meaning and symbol.
The question is it historical.

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Post #13

Post by catholic crusader »

Is it true that dark matter is just a myth that scientists created to explain why the universe acts in ways that they can't explain?
It is an observed inconsistancy in theory and application that is currently searching for a resolution. We really don't know much about dark matter, and it is just the term being used to explain something we think is out there generating most of the gravity required to maintain the stability of galaxies. We know something out there is generating galaxies
So what you are saying is that it is true that dark matter is just a myth that scientists created to explain why the universe acts in ways that they can't explain?

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Post #14

Post by catholic crusader »

Quote:
Is it true that dark matter is just a myth that scientists created to explain why the universe acts in ways that they can't explain?


Quote:

It is an observed inconsistancy in theory and application that is currently searching for a resolution. We really don't know much about dark matter, and it is just the term being used to explain something we think is out there generating most of the gravity required to maintain the stability of galaxies. We know something out there is generating galaxies


So what you are saying is that it is true that dark matter is just a myth that scientists created to explain why the universe acts in ways that they can't explain?
It made me laugh, but I know it is against the rules and should be a private joke.
For practical reasons it should not be done because it takes away from what he poster had to say that was relavant.
He had something to say that was relevant?

Looks to me like he restated what I already said and threw in an insult to show case his lack of maturity.

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Post #15

Post by Goat »

catholic crusader wrote:
How much data do you want?
You havn't presented any absolute evidence that no christ person existed.
Let's see. We have no evidence that Jesus of Nazareth even existed , except for the Gospels, and the letters of Paul.

Paul mentions very little about Jesus, but he never met him.

But, the gospels mention many things that are the stuff of myth making. Being raised from the dead, being God, Raising people from the dead, walking on water, being born of a virgin. These items are of myth making proportions.

These are things we know are impossible today.. and are definately outside of our modern experience, because we know more about the world

How is it NOT a myth?
“What do you think science is? There is nothing magical about science. It is simply a systematic way for carefully and thoroughly observing nature and using consistent logic to evaluate results. So which part of that exactly do you disagree with? Do you disagree with being thorough? Using careful observation? Being systematic? Or using consistent logic?�

Steven Novella

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Post #16

Post by C-Nub »

You should look up relevant. I talked about what you talked about. That, by definition, correct or not, makes it relevant. Except that part where I called you a 'twit' and was publicly chastized for it, despite the forum having this really handy built in private messaging system that would be just PERFECT for that sort of thing.

Dark Matter wasn't "made-up," it was 'discovered' mathmatically, and we are presently searching for it. What we know is that there is unaccounted for gravity being generated within observable galaxies. Dark Matter is what we call this source because we haven't figured out what it is yet. We aren't saying "it's dark matter, case closed", we're saying we have to find it.

We call it "Dark" because, as near as we can tell, it's none-reactive except gravitationally. It doesn't reflect light or respond, at least as near as we can tell, to electromagnetism. What's important is that this is NOTHING new. Black Holes were found mathmatically before they were found in the observatory, the atom was a theory long before we started looking for it, Einstein's theory of general relativity was just that until an eclipse of our sun proved his prediction that gravity bent light.

As for Christ's status as a myth, let's see what we do know; His history, such as it is, is established in only one book, and in none of the many, many recovered histories from the times and places he supposedly was. Lots of people tell stories about him which carry obvious, easy to decode moral metaphors. He's thought by many to have been real, like many myths at one point or another, and he cannot in any way be supported archeologically. Christ is, regardless of whether or not you believe in him, the very definition of a myth.

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Post #17

Post by Cathar1950 »

catholic crusader wrote:
How much data do you want?
You havn't presented any absolute evidence that no christ person existed.
Bad wording as it leaves you wondering what you mean.

Paul claims he was made Christ at his death and being risen bef
ore that he wouldn't be Chrsit at least according to Paul.
If you mean an man name Jesus, that too is questionable.
If you mean by myth something that is false I think you both claim to much by saying Jesus was more then a myth and that is debatable, on the other hand by saying his not a myth means you are not taken it seriously.

Below is what I mean by myth.
I don't think you can say it is not myth. I would like you to show how it is not myth. Now if you are arguing the existence of the man Jesus that is a diffrent story and I persoanlly think the jury is still out and there are good arguments on any of the many sides.
As Goat pointed out, the NT has all the marks of myth no matter if whatever claims you want to make are true or false.

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History of Science
Definition of Myth

Perhaps the most fundamental shift necessary for the emergence of science is the way people see themselves in relation to the physical world (nature). Originally humanity survived by gathering and hunting. While we only have hints of the way in which our remote ancestors perceived themselves and the world, we can see that in those cultures of that type that survive today, people always see themselves imbedded within the systems of nature. Nature, the places, plants, animals and the people themselves are all part of the same spiritual whole, which man can contact and influence by ritual and magic. In this world, man survives by killing, by taking life from, and sharing it with other life. It is a world perceived as mystery, and described in myth. Without doubt, our ancestors viewed themselves in much the same way.
The function of myth

Myth has many functions. To quote Joseph Campbell from the Historical Atlas of World Mythology, pp. 8-9:

"The first function of mythology is to waken and maintain in the individual a sense of wonder and participation in the mystery of this finally inscrutable universe..." The second function....is to fill every particle and quarter of the current cosmological image with its measure of this mystical import... a third function, no less important, is the sociological one of validating and maintaining whatever moral system and manner of life-customs may be peculiar to the local culture.... A fourth, and final essential function of mythologies is the pedagogical one of conducting individuals in harmony through the passages of human life...".

In other words, myth is mystical, cosmological, social and educational. And in that sense, science which is the far-flung descendent of that mythic world still attempts to understand the nature of the cosmos, and the implications of that knowledge to society and to the individual.

A dictionary definition of myth:

Myths are tales or traditions that seek to explain:
1. the place of humans in the universe and their origin
2. the nature of society
3. the relationship between the individual and the world
4. the meaning of natural phenomena especially individual events (no attempt to fit into a system of general laws)

Myths coincided originally with nature knowledge transmitted by story telling in an oral tradition.
Mythos literally means the telling [of the story].
http://inst.santafe.cc.fl.us/~jbieber/HS/def-myth.htm

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Post #18

Post by Hugh »

Well ... some people really wants a short-cut. That was the very reason why our long long forgotten ancestors created god to answer everything without flaw.

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Post #19

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As for Christ's status as a myth, let's see what we do know; His history, such as it is, is established in only one book, and in none of the many, many recovered histories from the times and places he supposedly was. Lots of people tell stories about him which carry obvious, easy to decode moral metaphors. He's thought by many to have been real, like many myths at one point or another, and he cannot in any way be supported archeologically. Christ is, regardless of whether or not you believe in him, the very definition of a myth.
If I started telling stories about you and they spread It wouldn't make you a myth. The stories surrounding you may be myth but you are still flesh and blood person. Can you prove that no jesus existed. You still have not presented any absolute fact.

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Post #20

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Below is what I mean by myth.
I don't think you can say it is not myth. I would like you to show how it is not myth. Now if you are arguing the existence of the man Jesus that is a diffrent story and I persoanlly think the jury is still out and there are good arguments on any of the many sides.
As Goat pointed out, the NT has all the marks of myth no matter if whatever claims you want to make are true or false.
I'm not making any claims of any sort regarding any thing to do with christ.

I want you guys to back up your claim that he's just a myth.

I'm absolutly not making any claims myself.

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