Is it right to judge Christianity based on Christians?

[Confused]

Moderators, unsure where to put this, so if this is the wrong forum index, please feel free to move as you see fit.

It seems to me that I have invested a lot of energy in trying to find the truth of Christianity by comparing scripture with current Christians. I didn't realize until yesterday when the last local church in this area told me it was impossible to minister to my son because he was beyond their resources. Now, in my defense, I got pissed but for good reasons. My son is a handful yes, but he is in a special education class for children with emotional and behavioral disorders (autism/aspergers/severe ADHD) and function moderately ok. He has his days when he is defiant or when the stimulation is to high and he breaks down and essentially goes into a vegetative state for an unknown period of time (average 8-12 hours) where theoretically he restarts his system. The education system is mandated by law to provide this service. My anger results from that fact that religion is suppose to be held to higher standards. The standards of God. For a church (and this was a large church) to turn away a 7 year old boy was appalling to me. But it is the 5th church to do so. So last night I was on a path of vengeance. I was judging every Christian I knew and using their hypocrisy to discount the scripture. It got me wondering.

Is it right to judge Christianity based on the sole actions of Christians? I am aware of the discrepancies that exist in the Bible. But I am not judging scripture alone here. I am judging scripture and Christians together. Is it right? Any thoughts?

[Confused]

Moderators, unsure where to put this, so if this is the wrong forum index, please feel free to move as you see fit.

I think it's a good place as any.

Is it right to judge Christianity based on the sole actions of Christians? I am aware of the discrepancies that exist in the Bible. But I am not judging scripture alone here. I am judging scripture and Christians together. Is it right? Any thoughts?

First off, though you are angry, I appreciate your honesty in sharing about your situation.

I think you can judge Christianity based on actions of Christians. And Christians should know that and expect that. But, I don't think it should solely be based on that. Christianity should primarily be judged by its claims and teachings. And secondly by its proponents.

I think Christians should be held to a higher standard. Primarily because the Bible holds them to a higher standard.

Matt 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

But, the reality is that nobody is perfect. Or even close to perfect. But, I think Christians should still strive for it.

I understand what your saying, but herein lies the crux: if you don't understand a lot of what the Bible says, such as the parables, then you have to turn to someone to explain. When everyone around you seems to be good at preaching, but lousy at practicing, what standards can you use for Christianity?

[Goat]

Moderators, unsure where to put this, so if this is the wrong forum index, please feel free to move as you see fit.

It seems to me that I have invested a lot of energy in trying to find the truth of Christianity by comparing scripture with current Christians. I didn't realize until yesterday when the last local church in this area told me it was impossible to minister to my son because he was beyond their resources. Now, in my defense, I got pissed but for good reasons. My son is a handful yes, but he is in a special education class for children with emotional and behavioral disorders (autism/aspergers/severe ADHD) and function moderately ok. He has his days when he is defiant or when the stimulation is to high and he breaks down and essentially goes into a vegetative state for an unknown period of time (average 8-12 hours) where theoretically he restarts his system. The education system is mandated by law to provide this service. My anger results from that fact that religion is suppose to be held to higher standards. The standards of God. For a church (and this was a large church) to turn away a 7 year old boy was appalling to me. But it is the 5th church to do so. So last night I was on a path of vengeance. I was judging every Christian I knew and using their hypocrisy to discount the scripture. It got me wondering.

Is it right to judge Christianity based on the sole actions of Christians? I am aware of the discrepancies that exist in the Bible. But I am not judging scripture alone here. I am judging scripture and Christians together. Is it right? Any thoughts?

Well, there are several issues here. I think that there are many different types of Chrisitans, and how they act is the only way to judge them.

However, when it comes to your son, I realise you are in a very difficult position, but your son needs special attention. It could be these churches just did not know how to handle your son's needs, or had the resources to handle his needs. I am not saying this is fair, but it could just be an evaluation on their abilities.. not their desires. It could be that with their lack of experiance with someone like your son, and the lack of resources for someone like your son, they might be concerned about other children, particularly if they are younger and weaker kids.

Since I don't the know the situation those churches are in, I don't know if you could be fair in your evaluation of those specific churches are being hypocritcal. I know you have the frustration level and concern for your son to come to that judgement. I hope you can get access to the resources you do need to help you, but I think it is somewhat unfair to judge Christians by the how those churches responded.

[Confused]

Moderators, unsure where to put this, so if this is the wrong forum index, please feel free to move as you see fit.

It seems to me that I have invested a lot of energy in trying to find the truth of Christianity by comparing scripture with current Christians. I didn't realize until yesterday when the last local church in this area told me it was impossible to minister to my son because he was beyond their resources. Now, in my defense, I got pissed but for good reasons. My son is a handful yes, but he is in a special education class for children with emotional and behavioral disorders (autism/aspergers/severe ADHD) and function moderately ok. He has his days when he is defiant or when the stimulation is to high and he breaks down and essentially goes into a vegetative state for an unknown period of time (average 8-12 hours) where theoretically he restarts his system. The education system is mandated by law to provide this service. My anger results from that fact that religion is suppose to be held to higher standards. The standards of God. For a church (and this was a large church) to turn away a 7 year old boy was appalling to me. But it is the 5th church to do so. So last night I was on a path of vengeance. I was judging every Christian I knew and using their hypocrisy to discount the scripture. It got me wondering.

Is it right to judge Christianity based on the sole actions of Christians? I am aware of the discrepancies that exist in the Bible. But I am not judging scripture alone here. I am judging scripture and Christians together. Is it right? Any thoughts?

Well, there are several issues here. I think that there are many different types of Chrisitans, and how they act is the only way to judge them.

However, when it comes to your son, I realise you are in a very difficult position, but your son needs special attention. It could be these churches just did not know how to handle your son's needs, or had the resources to handle his needs. I am not saying this is fair, but it could just be an evaluation on their abilities.. not their desires. It could be that with their lack of experiance with someone like your son, and the lack of resources for someone like your son, they might be concerned about other children, particularly if they are younger and weaker kids.

Since I don't the know the situation those churches are in, I don't know if you could be fair in your evaluation of those specific churches are being hypocritcal. I know you have the frustration level and concern for your son to come to that judgement. I hope you can get access to the resources you do need to help you, but I think it is somewhat unfair to judge Christians by the how those churches responded.

You misunderstand me to a degree. I don't claim my judgement of Christianity is solely related to the responses of churches in this area to my son. But also to me. In any Bible study classes I have gone to, when I question how the pastor came to the conclusion he gained from parable, I get the standard "once you find your relationship with Christ, you will see". Now how does that make sense. Yes, I realize that the issues with my son have put me in a special set of circumstances, but when I look at it, I have to think.....Ok, God is higher than State right. State dictates that special education programs be made for children such as alan. Should the church not be held to a higher standard. The last quarter statistics from the WHO state that 1 in every 144 male children are born with some degree of autism. The area I live in in Florida has had such a boost in economy over the past 15 years that their is a large church at least every 3-4 miles along highway 98. Yet no church has ever ministered to a special needs child. What message should I take from that.

But I agree with you to some extent. I shouldn't be judging Christianity on this criteria because there exist a lot of hypocritical Christians. So tell me, what criteria must I use?

[Goat]

You misunderstand me to a degree. I don't claim my judgement of Christianity is solely related to the responses of churches in this area to my son. But also to me. In any Bible study classes I have gone to, when I question how the pastor came to the conclusion he gained from parable, I get the standard "once you find your relationship with Christ, you will see". Now how does that make sense. Yes, I realize that the issues with my son have put me in a special set of circumstances, but when I look at it, I have to think.....Ok, God is higher than State right. State dictates that special education programs be made for children such as alan. Should the church not be held to a higher standard. The last quarter statistics from the WHO state that 1 in every 144 male children are born with some degree of autism. The area I live in in Florida has had such a boost in economy over the past 15 years that their is a large church at least every 3-4 miles along highway 98. Yet no church has ever ministered to a special needs child. What message should I take from that.

But I agree with you to some extent. I shouldn't be judging Christianity on this criteria because there exist a lot of hypocritical Christians. So tell me, what criteria must I use?

Ah.. the 'once you find your relationship with Christ, you will see' is definately an attitude that I personally annoying (not so much the 'Christ', but that attitude that you are incapable of understanding unless you are initated into the religious belief)

As for churches being held to a high standard, well, theortically yes. From a practical matter, it never works out that way.

[Confused]

So what do we use to judge Christianity on. How is it that one is to believe it over any other religion. If we can't know if the Christian is interpreting it correctly, then we fall into a false doctrine, which by scripture, still lead us to hell. If we can't know which are hypocrites and which are true, then where do we go. The bible doesn't make anything plain enough to validate Christianity on its own merits. Its practicing members may or may not be true to the word or may be true but to a false interpretation.

[Goat]

So what do we use to judge Christianity on. How is it that one is to believe it over any other religion. If we can't know if the Christian is interpreting it correctly, then we fall into a false doctrine, which by scripture, still lead us to hell. If we can't know which are hypocrites and which are true, then where do we go. The bible doesn't make anything plain enough to validate Christianity on its own merits. Its practicing members may or may not be true to the word or may be true but to a false interpretation.

I never understood what 'False doctrine' was about. Of course, I don't either believe in Christianity or hell either.

[Confused]

So what do we use to judge Christianity on. How is it that one is to believe it over any other religion. If we can't know if the Christian is interpreting it correctly, then we fall into a false doctrine, which by scripture, still lead us to hell. If we can't know which are hypocrites and which are true, then where do we go. The bible doesn't make anything plain enough to validate Christianity on its own merits. Its practicing members may or may not be true to the word or may be true but to a false interpretation.

I never understood what 'False doctrine' was about. Of course, I don't either believe in Christianity or hell either.

False interpretations of things ambiguous such as parables. I don't know what I believe anymore. It seems like every time I think I can make a step in one direction or the other, I find myself back on neutral territory and just as confused.

[Dion]

Is it right to judge Christianity based on the sole actions of Christians?

I may be wrong, but doesn't it say something in the Bible about knowing a tree by the fruit that it bears?

[Confused]

Is it right to judge Christianity based on the sole actions of Christians?

I may be wrong, but doesn't it say something in the Bible about knowing a tree by the fruit that it bears?

Yes, but how are you sure the fruit on the tree are actually of that tree. Many imitate Christians for various reasons. To fit in, to look good, it is the current trend, etc..... And there are so many interpretation of what one scripture means that some who follow it may be following it under the assumption that it is the correct Christian way, when it may not be. So how can I know what is truth and what is false when there are so many different trees with different fruits all claiming to be "the" tree?

[Dion]

Is it right to judge Christianity based on the sole actions of Christians?

I may be wrong, but doesn't it say something in the Bible about knowing a tree by the fruit that it bears?

Yes, but how are you sure the fruit on the tree are actually of that tree. Many imitate Christians for various reasons. To fit in, to look good, it is the current trend, etc..... And there are so many interpretation of what one scripture means that some who follow it may be following it under the assumption that it is the correct Christian way, when it may not be. So how can I know what is truth and what is false when there are so many different trees with different fruits all claiming to be "the" tree?

Yes, of course, you're right. It would be difficult for any reasonable person to argue with what I have always understood to be the central message of Christianity: Love your neighbour as yourself. Which is much the same as: Do unto others as you would be done by.

The problem, as I see it, is that Christianity is a religion as opposed to a philosophy. And it is the absolutism of religion, especially monotheistic religions, that seems to be at the root of most of the problems. If the 'tree of religion' has so much bad fruit associated with it, however it got there, perhaps there is something fundamentally wrong with the tree.