Islam & science

[omartarik2006]

Related to this Topic , I would like to discuss the relation between Islam and science .The confrontation between the Quran and scientific data has always provided me with food for thought.I always held the belief that corroboration between the scriptures and science was a necessary element to the authenticity of the sacred text .Since We cannot, after all, accept a "divine" Revelation making statements which are totally inaccurate.
I would like to start by these verses :"Alif, Lam, Mim. The Romans have been defeated in the lowest land ,but after their defeat they will be victorious within few years. The affair is Allah's from beginning to end. "(Qur'an, 30:1-4).
Historically ,we know that the Quran was revealed during approximately 23 years ( 610 -632 AD),the Roman -Persian wars , wich is the longest war ever between two entities in History occurred in Syria , parts of Mesopotamia and specifically around Jerusalem (= the Dead Sea Basin.)
Only recently , using topographic maps, science has affirmed this scientific truth: the Lowest point on land is the Dead Sea with −417 m, it was already revealed to an illiterate Prophet 1400 years ago.
Any comments or rectifications are welcomed.

[omartarik2006]

Obsolete information!!!
The age of 13.7 billions years old you gave is based on the assumption that the project of Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe is correct ,there are many different methods that could give different ages.I stated above that there are still many highly controversial studies concerning the age of The Universe .
Another method to measure the age of the universe is by studying Globular clusters ,the oldest globular clusters are between 11 and 18 billion years old.
However you can check out this Link , updated in 2006 and approved by the NASA.
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/scien ... 1/age.html
Let me quote the first phrase :Astronomers estimate that the Big Bang occurred between 10 and 20 billion years ago.....

[Goat]

Obsolete information!!!
The age of 13.7 billions years old you gave is based on the assumption that the project of Wilkinson Microwave Anisotropy Probe is correct ,there are many different methods that could give different ages.I stated above that there are still many highly controversial studies concerning the age of The Universe .
Another method to measure the age of the universe is by studying Globular clusters ,the oldest globular clusters are between 11 and 18 billion years old.
However you can check out this Link , updated in 2006 and approved by the NASA.
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/scien ... 1/age.html
Let me quote the first phrase :Astronomers estimate that the Big Bang occurred between 10 and 20 billion years ago.....

The 13.7 is very strongly supported by the vast majoirty of scientists.

Here is a more accurate range, not designed for children.

http://www.astro.ucla.edu/~wright/age.html

The 18.2 is beyond the range of the most extreme case of those methods.

[omartarik2006]

I believe That I gave the same link as a reference ,and I don't know if it's beyond the intellectual faculties (of our children as you claimed the site is designed ) to say that the universe is 13.7 billion years old , instead the Nasa chose to confuse us by stating that the universe's age is approximately between 11 and 20 Gyrs.
However , regarding what I can gather from this link :
1-The age of 13.7 Gyrs is only estimated from cosmological models based on the Hubble constant and the densities of matter and dark energy.
2-When dealing with actual age measurements, we got ,and I'm quoting:
....then the age of the Universe would be to = 8-11 billion years. But if the elements are made continuously at a constant rate....which we can solve for the age of the Universe giving:to = 11.5-17.5 Gyr....A later paper by Cowan et al. (1999, ApJ, 521, 194) gives 15.6 +/- 4.6 Gyr (wich means 20.2 / 11Gyr) for the age based on two stars: CS 22892-052 and HD 115444...etc.
I think that's why we estimate the age of the universe between 11 and 20Gyrs.

[omartarik2006]

Let me state another revealing verse quoted from Surat Yussuf/Joseph:
When Joseph said unto his father: O my father! Lo! I saw in a dream eleven planets and the sun and the moon, I saw them prostrating themselves unto me....Check out this link http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_disp ... ont_size=8
Now I don't know if it's obsolete too , please correct me If I'm wrong, but according to recent discoveries our solar system consist of 11 planets:

1-Mercury 2-Venus 3-Earth 4-Mars 5-Jupiter 6-Saturn 7-Uranus 8-Neptune 9-Ceres 10-Pluto.11-Eris .
Ps:In some rare old translations , you might find that the world الكوكب, was mistakenly translated to "stars",here's the verse in arabic :
إِذْ قَالَ يُوسُفُ لِأَبِيهِ يَا أَبتِ إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ أَحَدَعشر كَوْكَباً
Now check out the translation Web-Page I gave before: http://translation2.paralink.com/lowres.asp, you'll find that كوكبin arabic is a reference to planet while star is translated to النجم.

[Goat]

Let me state another revealing verse quoted from Surat Yussuf/Joseph:
When Joseph said unto his father: O my father! Lo! I saw in a dream eleven planets and the sun and the moon, I saw them prostrating themselves unto me....Check out this link http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_disp ... ont_size=8
Now I don't know if it's obsolete too , please correct me If I'm wrong, but according to recent discoveries our solar system consist of 11 planets:

1-Mercury 2-Venus 3-Earth 4-Mars 5-Jupiter 6-Saturn 7-Uranus 8-Neptune 9-Ceres 10-Pluto.11-Eris .
Ps:In some rare old translations , you might find that the world الكوكب, was mistakenly translated to "stars",here's the verse in arabic :
إِذْ قَالَ يُوسُفُ لِأَبِيهِ يَا أَبتِ إِنِّي رَأَيْتُ أَحَدَعشر كَوْكَباً
Now check out the translation Web-Page I gave before: http://translation2.paralink.com/lowres.asp, you'll find that كوكبin arabic is a reference to planet while star is translated to النجم.

That depends.. they recently redefined exactly what a planet is, so that eliminated pluto, so there are only 8 planets.

If they kept Pluto, they would have added about 3 or 4 different other objects, at least, which would have made it about 12 or 13 known planets.

[Cathar1950]

You make a good point Goat. They should get the science down before they get all sciencey (is that a word?) with religious writings. Is it Planets or Wanderers?

[omartarik2006]

Hi Goat .
Correct , the International Astronomical Union has recently redefined what a planet is ,here's the official statement after its General Assembly on August 24, 2006:
1-A planet is a celestial body that:is in orbit around the Sun, has sufficient mass so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and has "cleared the neighborhood" around its orbit.
Pluto was eliminated , yet it is now classified among the "Dwarf planets ",a term now used for planets that fulfill only the first two of the criteria above.
There are currently 8 planets as you said ,plus 3 "dwarf planets" wich make it 11.
Here's the New solar system image as approved by the NASA :

[Goat]

Hi Goat .
Correct , the International Astronomical Union has recently redefined what a planet is ,here's the official statement after its General Assembly on August 24, 2006:
1-A planet is a celestial body that:is in orbit around the Sun, has sufficient mass so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and has "cleared the neighborhood" around its orbit.
Pluto was eliminated , yet it is now classified among the "Dwarf planets ",a term now used for planets that fulfill only the first two of the criteria above.
There are currently 8 planets as you said ,plus 3 "dwarf planets" wich make it 11.

That is 3 KNOWN dwarf planets. Can you say there will be no others found? Lots of space out there for one to be hiding in.

And, from http://www.iau2006.org/mirror/www.iau.o ... index.html

This means that the Solar System consists of eight "planets" Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune. A new distinct class of objects called "dwarf planets" was also decided. It was agreed that "planets" and "dwarf planets" are two distinct classes of objects. The first members of the "dwarf planet" category are Ceres, Pluto and 2003 UB313 (temporary name). More "dwarf planets" are expected to be announced by the IAU in the coming months and years. Currently a dozen candidate "dwarf planets" are listed on IAU's "dwarf planet" watchlist, which keeps changing as new objects are found and the physics of the existing candidates becomes better known.

So, no matter how you slice it and dice it, it is just trying to retrofit scientific definitions and knowledge into someplace it just doesn't fit.

[omartarik2006]

I believe the verse I quoted has something to reveal.So let's wait and see , hopefully we'll be still alive.Let me however introduce you another scientific truth already revealed in the Quran .
It is God Who created the seven heavens and of the earth the same number, the Command descending down through all of them, so that you might know that God has power over all things and that God encompasses all things in His knowledge. (Qur'an, 65:12).
Notice the words in bold ,The information in the above verse is confirmed in scientific sources, The geologic component layers of the Earth are seven:
1-Lithosphere 2- Crust 3-Uppermost part of mantle 4-Mantle 5-. Asthenosphere 6- Outer core 7-Inner core.

[Goat]

Let's wait and see , hopefully we'll be still alive.

It should just be a few months.. so I am sure I will be.