One allah telling the story?

van · Post by **van** » Sat Jan 02, 2010 12:46 pm

Muslims have a difficult time understanding that GOD inspired different writters to put eyewitness accounts down in their own words. The versions might be might slightly different but they do not contradict but compilment the full story.

Everyone sees things differently and at a criminal trial eyewitnesses often have different things to report about the crime- sorted out all these clues add up to tell the full story.

When you quote someone it is word for word, different people quoting one person usually say the very same words. Supposedly the Quran was revealed by one allah.

If one being/allah is telling a story why is the quote from Zakariya different?

3.40 He said: "O my Lord! How shall I have son, seeing I am very old, and my wife is barren?" "Thus," was the answer, "Doth Allah accomplish what He willeth."

019.008 He said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son, when my wife is barren and I have grown quite decrepit from old age?"

Also why does allah skip around when telling a story? Why not tell the whole story in one chapter instead of jumping around all crazy?

van · Post by **van** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 7:59 am

We are going off topic here:

Goat- prophecy fulfilled is all most have. Some have had close encounters. Then there are miracles - others would say that is just coincidence. But that is where you need that leap of faith-not blind faith just leaping at anything, but one that has some evidence. Until you experience you just don't get it. I know that sounds like a cop out, the answer most people of faith say, but it is the case when you are not ready to hear something.

So many people are hung up on the various tellings of the Gospel- even with the fact that they are eyewitness accounts from different people.

Then all of a sudden when it is the Quran the one person reporting that had no eyewitness is allowed to change quotes?

OK - Yet again the Holy Bible must be dissected to be proved and the Quran just passes because one lone man says so, no eyewitnesses, no prophecies. Now that is blind faith.

TrueReligion- yes I understand the translations are a bit different in each set of verses. My point is that one verse and all it's translations is simply saying old age the other is saying decrepit or infirm old age.

TrueReligion · Post by **TrueReligion** » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:06 am

van wrote:We are going off topic here:

Goat- prophecy fulfilled is all most have. Some have had close encounters. Then there are miracles - others would say that is just coincidence. But that is where you need that leap of faith-not blind faith just leaping at anything, but one that has some evidence. Until you experience you just don't get it. I know that sounds like a cop out, the answer most people of faith say, but it is the case when you are not ready to hear something.

So many people are hung up on the various tellings of the Gospel- even with the fact that they are eyewitness accounts from different people.

Then all of a sudden when it is the Quran the one person reporting that had no eyewitness is allowed to change quotes?

OK - Yet again the Holy Bible must be dissected to be proved and the Quran just passes because one lone man says so, no eyewitnesses, no prophecies. Now that is blind faith.

TrueReligion- yes I understand the translations are a bit different in each set of verses. My point is that one verse and all it's translations is simply saying old age the other is saying decrepit or infirm old age.

Van, 1st of all, can you show which prophecy of Jesus was fulfiled in Bible?
2nd, there are many eye-witness of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) getting revelation,and about his prophecy, and these people. noted at same time, and authentic chain of narrators wrote these records.
But in Christianity, the chain of authentic reporting is not available. and never there is any record, which goes direct to Jesus.
Lastly, I told you, translation means choice of word, and the translator used their choice of words, but both meaning dont differ with each other, the meaning of sentence is easy to understand, without contradicting with each other.
But in case of Bible, the contradiction and error is not only because of translation, its because of wrong reporting of event, which I showed already as in the case of period from Adam to Noah.

DeBunkem · Post by **DeBunkem** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:34 pm

The "different points of view" as an excuse for glaring omissions and contradictions of the Bible does not hold up. For instance, all the "Gospel" writers but John failed to mention the "virgin birth."

Goat · Post by **Goat** » Sun Jan 10, 2010 10:43 pm

DeBunkem wrote:The "different points of view" as an excuse for glaring omissions and contradictions of the Bible does not hold up. For instance, all the "Gospel" writers but John failed to mention the "virgin birth."

The Gospel of Matthew does, with a mistranslation of Isaiah taken out of context.
(Mathew 1:18)

Also luke mentions it in Luke 1:26-35

van · Post by **van** » Mon Jan 11, 2010 9:47 pm

OK so none of you see a problem with changing a quote?

The Quran is supposedly from a single entity to a single person and they can't get a quote repeated correctly?

More examples:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... ions.pdf

TrueReligion · Post by **TrueReligion** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:37 am

van wrote:OK so none of you see a problem with changing a quote?

The Quran is supposedly from a single entity to a single person and they can't get a quote repeated correctly?

More examples:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... ions.pdf

You can bring here any of example, and we shall discuss, further, do you agree that the contradiction and difference in Bible are agreed by all christians, that its with errors?

TrueReligion · Post by **TrueReligion** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:39 am

TrueReligion wrote:
van wrote:OK so none of you see a problem with changing a quote?

The Quran is supposedly from a single entity to a single person and they can't get a quote repeated correctly?

More examples:

http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/ ... ions.pdf
You can bring here any of example, and we shall discuss, because all of what this author quote, are from the translation point of view, but in actual arabic language, there is no difference. its proven already as well Van.
For translation, it depends on what meaning you are extracting, dats why it is recommending to read Quran , which is translated from Authentic source.

But anyway, do you agree that the contradiction and difference in Bible are agreed by all christians, that its with errors?

van · Post by **van** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:16 am

We are talking about the Quran here and not the Holy Bible- start a thread on that.

The link I provided has a list of the verss that were repeated quotes that were changed in the repeating of them.

015.028
YUSUFALI: Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;
PICKTHAL: And (remember) when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered,
SHAKIR: And when your Lord said to the angels: Surely I am going to create a mortal of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape

and

038.071
YUSUFALI: Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from clay:
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to create a mortal out of mire,
SHAKIR: When your Lord said to the angels; Surely I am going to create a mortal from dust:

For these to be direct quotes from allah they should read exactly the same- that is what a quote is.

If these are supposed to be just paraphrases, an eyewitness summerizing a story in their own words they could be diffferent-embellished and it would not matter, but the Quran is supposed to be word for word from allah-he changes his quotes!

He changes what he said, he said!

TrueReligion · Post by **TrueReligion** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 8:43 am

van wrote:We are talking about the Quran here and not the Holy Bible- start a thread on that.[/van]
We started many posts, but you never showed up there, so you also consider that Bible is with contradictions and errors aswell.

van wrote: The link I provided has a list of the verss that were repeated quotes that were changed in the repeating of them.

015.028
YUSUFALI: Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;
PICKTHAL: And (remember) when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered,
SHAKIR: And when your Lord said to the angels: Surely I am going to create a mortal of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape

and

038.071
YUSUFALI: Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from clay:
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to create a mortal out of mire,
SHAKIR: When your Lord said to the angels; Surely I am going to create a mortal from dust:

For these to be direct quotes from allah they should read exactly the same- that is what a quote is.

If these are supposed to be just paraphrases, an eyewitness summerizing a story in their own words they could be diffferent-embellished and it would not matter, but the Quran is supposed to be word for word from allah-he changes his quotes!

He changes what he said, he said!
I think you are confusing between translation and version, Translation means intpreting from 1 language to another,
or giving meaning from 1 language to other, which choice of words.

In all these verses, the meaning is same, only the dfference is of words, dat is choice of the translation. Do you see any different message giving by the translator here?

van · Post by **van** » Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:57 pm

Nope, I understand arabic to be a very difficult language to be translated into any other language.

With each verse the translators have done their best to give what they think is the best translation. I have no issue with that.

015.028
YUSUFALI: Behold! thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man, from sounding clay from mud moulded into shape;
PICKTHAL: And (remember) when thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am creating a mortal out of potter's clay of black mud altered,
SHAKIR: And when your Lord said to the angels: Surely I am going to create a mortal of the essence of black mud fashioned in shape

What I have issue is when allah repeats in verse 38:71 what he says he said to the angels in 15:28 it is different.

038.071
YUSUFALI: Behold, thy Lord said to the angels: "I am about to create man from clay:
PICKTHAL: When thy Lord said unto the angels: Lo! I am about to create a mortal out of mire,
SHAKIR: When your Lord said to the angels; Surely I am going to create a mortal from dust:

How can you trust a being that changes what he tells you from one time to the next?

The Quran is supposed to be word for word directly from one being.

Does allah forget what he said earlier?

Did allah only inspire the thought and allow man to use their own words to put it down in writting?

Is the Quran actually a compilaton from the different companions that wrote down the verses for Mohammad?