[Mat 28:17 KJV] 17 And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
Actually, the word "some" is not found in the Greek. A more literal reading of the passage is the disciples doubted.
(NABRE) When they saw him, they worshiped, but they doubted.
It's OK to doubt. We're talking about the 11 disciples here. We're talking about Jesus standing right in front of them after the resurrection. And they still doubted!
We're not the 11 apostles and we don't have Jesus appearing in front of us. Can we be honest with ourselves and say we have no doubt?
Yet, the disciples still worshiped him. They still obeyed him and fulfilled the Great Commission.
What does it mean to doubt?
It means to have a level of uncertainty within us. We don't know something 100% for sure. But, that's OK. We don't know anything 100% for sure. We don't even know 100% for sure that we aren't just a character in a universe simulation program.
The Greek word used for doubt is distazō. It's used only twice in the NT.
Literally, it means "two positions". It's vacillating between two things. It's having one foot on one position and the other foot on another position. On one hand you believe this and on the other hand you believe something else.
We often vacillate between believing things about God. God is real, God is not there. I want to follow God, I don't want to follow God. I want to do right, I want to do what I wish to do. I want to go to the Bible study, I want to go party.
The other place the word is used is when Peter was walking on water.
[Mat 14:31 KJV] 31 And immediately Jesus stretched forth [his] hand, and caught him, and said unto him, O thou of little faith, wherefore didst thou doubt (distazō)?
On one hand, Peter saw Jesus and believed. On the other hand, he saw the waves, his foot on the water, and logic took over. Yet, he was the only disciple that got to walk on the water.
Even though we can waiver in our belief, we can also still take action. Peter walked on the water. The disciples fulfilled the Great Commission.
It's OK to have doubt. Jesus never disowned Peter or the disciples for having doubt. But, he did encourage them to have faith. He will be there and extend his hand when we are starting to drown. He will always be with us, even until the very end.
[Mat 28:18-20 KJV] 18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.
Some doubted
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ttruscott
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Post #2
Thank you. I never thought to look up doubt, very interesting. A nice homily...
PCE Theology as I see it...
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
We had an existence with a free will in Sheol before the creation of the physical universe. Here we chose to be able to become holy or to be eternally evil in YHWH's sight. Then the physical universe was created and all sinners were sent to earth.
This theology debunks the need to base Christianity upon the blasphemy of creating us in Adam's sin.
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JehovahsWitness
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Re: Some doubted
Post #3[Replying to post 1 by otseng]
Applying common sense, the writer either meant
A good translator must use by common sense (doubts would normally be dispelled upon meeting Christ personally) and context, (Thomas doubted until he saw ). Whatever the decission anyone that knows the most basic principle of translating knows that words are constantly "added" to transition from one language to another without compromise of integrity if the thought of the writer is accurately conveyed. In some cases (as above) the decision as to exactly what idea is being conveyed must be determined by the translator.
JW
JW
Applying common sense, the writer either meant
- Group A worshipped the risen Jesus during his appearance to them and at the same time as they were looking at him doubted his resurrection took place
or
- Group A worshipped the risen Jesus during his appearance to them and a Group B doubted his resurrection (for whatever reason)
A good translator must use by common sense (doubts would normally be dispelled upon meeting Christ personally) and context, (Thomas doubted until he saw ). Whatever the decission anyone that knows the most basic principle of translating knows that words are constantly "added" to transition from one language to another without compromise of integrity if the thought of the writer is accurately conveyed. In some cases (as above) the decision as to exactly what idea is being conveyed must be determined by the translator.
JW
JW
INDEX: More bible based ANSWERS
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
http://debatingchristianity.com/forum/v ... 81#p826681
"For if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. So both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah" - Romans 14:8
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echo lightvalley
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Re: Some doubted
Post #4[Replying to post 1 by otseng]
But, it is a bit odd to have faith absolutely and to also question that faith we have, I suppose the apostles craved certainty just as we all do now, though they had certainty to a greater degree, having seen Jesus after his resurrection (and before it too)?
I suppose the reason we entertain doubts after knowledge is because we want to make our knowledge stronger, but also because we are weak and don't put enough stock in our own experience of God.
Paradoxically I think it is possible to absolutely believe and have faith and also entertain doubts, and there are different types of doubts, the pernicious doubts which try to rob us of our faith, and there are our virtuous doubts, which try to steer us clear of things which are not of our faith.We’re not the 11 apostles and we don’t have Jesus appearing in front of us. Can we be honest with ourselves and say we have no doubt?
But, it is a bit odd to have faith absolutely and to also question that faith we have, I suppose the apostles craved certainty just as we all do now, though they had certainty to a greater degree, having seen Jesus after his resurrection (and before it too)?
I suppose the reason we entertain doubts after knowledge is because we want to make our knowledge stronger, but also because we are weak and don't put enough stock in our own experience of God.
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otseng
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Re: Some doubted
Post #5Yes, it's OK to doubt. It can be argued that if one does not have some sort of doubt, then what's the need for faith? Doubt means I cannot prove to my own mind with absolute certainty that something will happen, but faith means I have trust in God that he will accomplish his plans. We're to have childlike faith that God will do what he says. When we get older, we want to reason things out. How is God going to take care of me when I don't have a job? How is God going to save my marriage when my spouse is faithless? How am I ever going to get married if nobody wants to take me out? It is in the midst of doubt that our faith can be exercised. God, I have no idea how this situation will get resolved and I have my own doubts, but I trust in you.echo lightvalley wrote: Paradoxically I think it is possible to absolutely believe and have faith and also entertain doubts, and there are different types of doubts, the pernicious doubts which try to rob us of our faith, and there are our virtuous doubts, which try to steer us clear of things which are not of our faith.
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echo lightvalley
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Re: Some doubted
Post #6[Replying to post 5 by otseng]
But, I think for the most part, a lot of people get the opportunity to come to God-- and I can't say everyone, it seems the world is such a state that not all get a proper opportunity, I am thinking of places struck with war, famine, sickness, etc. I think we should remember at some point, that doubt isn't really much a virtue to have, doubts should steer a believer away from that which is false, if they cover that which is true they are not useful but destructive, but can faith in the truth make that which is true seem stronger so to you? Only through self-revelation, to think in human terms, if your seed is in good ground faith should stand despite being shaken, but how do you tell your seed landed in good ground in the first place? I think for this self-revelation is needed to some level and there has to be some level of independently exploring Scripture for yourself, not with another's word, be that a minister or anyone else-- we don't know where others are standing, but we have the ability, surely, to get ourself under a good standing before God--- this is where some parts of scripture are helpful to remember, such as "the faith you have, keep between yourself and God."
I think for faith to be exercised it has to be tested, or shaken, if your faith is in the truth, it should come through, if you are stuck in a lie, this can be a hard contest, alas, world, how much is for Babylon?! Alas, alas-- I think the first thing to really understand when it comes to faith and God, is fear, faith and God--- faith is supposed to be tested by going through the fear of the Lord and only the courageous can do that, and don't be mistaken, surely it must be true that those with courage are those with faith, how could you be brave but act not with faith? The truly brave act with certainty (though yes, you can dispute it is possible to do so falsely too), and you needs must have faith to have certainty, I am thinking of the poem/verse:
What is courage if not the faith to act,
To commit to certainty, life for fact?
Then it goes on of course:
O, and how facts seem to alter in minds,
Where one fact is found, two contest its finds!
And who can decide the contest for sure,
But those who brave the truth where they explore?
I think this is a revelation one must go through, the fear of God, and I say a revelation because I think God has a unique process for each person with the over-riding similarity, of course being that the feeling is fear-- and perhaps I will start a post on that, to do with the fear of God.
I suppose, looking indifferently at things, having faith in something doesn't mean it is certain and having doubts doesn't mean something isn't certain; and that is a very general statement, I suppose an on-the-fence position.Yes, it's OK to doubt. It can be argued that if one does not have some sort of doubt, then what's the need for faith? Doubt means I cannot prove to my own mind with absolute certainty that something will happen, but faith means I have trust in God that he will accomplish his plans. We're to have childlike faith that God will do what he says. When we get older, we want to reason things out. How is God going to take care of me when I don't have a job? How is God going to save my marriage when my spouse is faithless? How am I ever going to get married if nobody wants to take me out? It is in the midst of doubt that our faith can be exercised. God, I have no idea how this situation will get resolved and I have my own doubts, but I trust in you.
But, I think for the most part, a lot of people get the opportunity to come to God-- and I can't say everyone, it seems the world is such a state that not all get a proper opportunity, I am thinking of places struck with war, famine, sickness, etc. I think we should remember at some point, that doubt isn't really much a virtue to have, doubts should steer a believer away from that which is false, if they cover that which is true they are not useful but destructive, but can faith in the truth make that which is true seem stronger so to you? Only through self-revelation, to think in human terms, if your seed is in good ground faith should stand despite being shaken, but how do you tell your seed landed in good ground in the first place? I think for this self-revelation is needed to some level and there has to be some level of independently exploring Scripture for yourself, not with another's word, be that a minister or anyone else-- we don't know where others are standing, but we have the ability, surely, to get ourself under a good standing before God--- this is where some parts of scripture are helpful to remember, such as "the faith you have, keep between yourself and God."
I think for faith to be exercised it has to be tested, or shaken, if your faith is in the truth, it should come through, if you are stuck in a lie, this can be a hard contest, alas, world, how much is for Babylon?! Alas, alas-- I think the first thing to really understand when it comes to faith and God, is fear, faith and God--- faith is supposed to be tested by going through the fear of the Lord and only the courageous can do that, and don't be mistaken, surely it must be true that those with courage are those with faith, how could you be brave but act not with faith? The truly brave act with certainty (though yes, you can dispute it is possible to do so falsely too), and you needs must have faith to have certainty, I am thinking of the poem/verse:
What is courage if not the faith to act,
To commit to certainty, life for fact?
Then it goes on of course:
O, and how facts seem to alter in minds,
Where one fact is found, two contest its finds!
And who can decide the contest for sure,
But those who brave the truth where they explore?
I think this is a revelation one must go through, the fear of God, and I say a revelation because I think God has a unique process for each person with the over-riding similarity, of course being that the feeling is fear-- and perhaps I will start a post on that, to do with the fear of God.
