Christian Socialism.

[jcrawford]

Since Martin Luther King was a Christian activist and socialist who successfully advocated and advanced the cause of equality and civil rights in the USA, would most American Christians not be better off if they studied and revived the non-violent techniques and practices of Christian Socialism in order to advance the religious teachings, principles and practices of Christianity within the framework of US politics and government today?

A Google search for Christian Socialism will reveal that its history dates back to the late 19th Century in some European countries, and while never a major force in any country's politics and government, must have given immense satisfaction to those Christians who participated in such a social organization and movement.

Some of the reasons why Christian Socialism might be a cause whose time has come in America is that secular socialism has already established deep roots in our social consciousness ever since its inauguration by FDR during the Great Depression, and the social gospel of Christ seems to have fallen by the wayside with the rise of secular humanism. Now that the US and Europe are caught up in a war between Islamic and Jewish socialists, I see no legitimate reason for US secular socialists to discrimate against Christian Socialism at home and abroad.

Questions for discussion and debate:

How might Christian Socialism improve the lives of Christian citizens?

What legitimate opposition might arise to a Christian socialist movement and from whom?

Do Christians have the right to form their own societies, political parties and governments?

What does or should the concept of sovereignty mean to Christians, and in whom would Christian Socialists recognize it as being invested?

Would it be intolerant or discriminatory on the part of any group to deny that Christian Socialists can organize themselves politically?

What other forms of government besides a Union of Christian Socialist States or a Christian Socialist Republic would be ammenable for conscienscious and law-abiding Christian citizens to live under?

How would Christian families benefit from living under a non-Christian government such as the former USSR, or under any form of socialism that is not specifically Christian?

What does the free exercise and pursuit of religious happiness mean to you personally?

In what year was the US Constitution ordained by the former Christian subjects of His Majesty, George III, King of England?

[Confused]

Since Martin Luther King was a Christian activist and socialist who successfully advocated and advanced the cause of equality and civil rights in the USA, would most American Christians not be better off if they studied and revived the non-violent techniques and practices of Christian Socialism in order to advance the religious teachings, principles and practices of Christianity within the framework of US politics and government today?

A Google search for Christian Socialism will reveal that its history dates back to the late 19th Century in some European countries, and while never a major force in any country's politics and government, must have given immense satisfaction to those Christians who participated in such a social organization and movement.

Some of the reasons why Christian Socialism might be a cause whose time has come in America is that secular socialism has already established deep roots in our social consciousness ever since its inauguration by FDR during the Great Depression, and the social gospel of Christ seems to have fallen by the wayside with the rise of secular humanism. Now that the US and Europe are caught up in a war between Islamic and Jewish socialists, I see no legitimate reason for US secular socialists to discrimate against Christian Socialism at home and abroad.

Questions for discussion and debate:

How might Christian Socialism improve the lives of Christian citizens?

What legitimate opposition might arise to a Christian socialist movement and from whom?

Do Christians have the right to form their own societies, political parties and governments?

What does or should the concept of sovereignty mean to Christians, and in whom would Christian Socialists recognize it as being invested?

Would it be intolerant or discriminatory on the part of any group to deny that Christian Socialists can organize themselves politically?

What other forms of government besides a Union of Christian Socialist States or a Christian Socialist Republic would be ammenable for conscienscious and law-abiding Christian citizens to live under?

How would Christian families benefit from living under a non-Christian government such as the former USSR, or under any form of socialism that is not specifically Christian?

What does the free exercise and pursuit of religious happiness mean to you personally?

In what year was the US Constitution ordained by the former Christian subjects of His Majesty, George III, King of England?

Your entire premise fails on your opening statement. MLK wasn't successful simply because he was a Christian activist and socialist. He was successful because his cause was right. Christian Socialism was totally irrelevant.

How might Christian socialism may improve Christianity as much as they let it, so long as they maintain it as a freedom that doesn't infringe on others. In other words, don't cram it down our throats.

The only opposition I see is if the movement attempts to force everyone else to conform to their view only. There will definately be issues arising from the political side if the movement attempts to override the consitutuional rights replacing it with religious rights.

If Chritians want to form their own government etc... Then find a new country to do it in.

No it wouldn't be intolerant to deny Christian socialism as a political organization. Remember: separation of church and state.

Why must everything be such a radical view to you? Why can you not allow others to practice as they feel is appropriate? You seem to think that your view is the only view that matters. That all people should be forced to see it in your view because you are the only one who truly understands what the bible says and what God wants. Guess what, Hitler thought the same thing. Get a clue.

[McCulloch]

Why don't you just join or form a Hutterite colony?

[Confused]

Why don't you just join or form a Hutterite colony?

What then would he have to condemn?

[jcrawford]

Your entire premise fails on your opening statement. MLK wasn't successful simply because he was a Christian activist and socialist. He was successful because his cause was right.

His cause was right because it was a Christian cause and he was a Christian leader.

Christian Socialism was totally irrelevant.

Socialism is totally irrelevent if it is not Christian.

How might Christian socialism may improve Christianity as much as they let it, so long as they maintain it as a freedom that doesn't infringe on others. In other words, don't cram it down our throats.

Socialism gets crammed down our throats one way or another.

The only opposition I see is if the movement attempts to force everyone else to conform to their view only.

I don't see how Christian Socialists could attempt to force anyone to conform to their view only.

There will definately be issues arising from the political side if the movement attempts to override the consitutuional rights replacing it with religious rights.

Overriding constitutional rights would be unconstitutional to begin with.

If Chritians want to form their own government etc... Then find a new country to do it in.

In the meantime they can form their own political party and try to influence the outcome of elections here in the US like the Green or Independent Parties do.

No it wouldn't be intolerant to deny Christian socialism as a political organization. Remember: separation of church and state.

Christian Socialism isn't a church. It is socialism with a Christian face.

Why must everything be such a radical view to you?

It is only radical to you.

Why can you not allow others to practice as they feel is appropriate?

Others do practice as they feel appropriate. It is Christian Socialists whom you would feel justified in being intolerant of, as you stated above.

You seem to think that your view is the only view that matters.

Whose view should I be arguing - yours?

That all people should be forced to see it in your view because you are the only one who truly understands what the bible says and what God wants.

I just express my view as everyone else does, even if they don't like it. Don't you like debating Christianity?

Guess what, Hitler thought the same thing. Get a clue.

So did Marx, Engles, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao and Castro. You do favor socialism, don't you?

[Confused]

Your entire premise fails on your opening statement. MLK wasn't successful simply because he was a Christian activist and socialist. He was successful because his cause was right.

His cause was right because it was a Christian cause and he was a Christian leader.

Christian Socialism was totally irrelevant.

Socialism is totally irrelevent if it is not Christian.

How might Christian socialism may improve Christianity as much as they let it, so long as they maintain it as a freedom that doesn't infringe on others. In other words, don't cram it down our throats.

Socialism gets crammed down our throats one way or another.

The only opposition I see is if the movement attempts to force everyone else to conform to their view only.

I don't see how Christian Socialists could attempt to force anyone to conform to their view only.

There will definately be issues arising from the political side if the movement attempts to override the consitutuional rights replacing it with religious rights.

Overriding constitutional rights would be unconstitutional to begin with.

If Chritians want to form their own government etc... Then find a new country to do it in.

In the meantime they can form their own political party and try to influence the outcome of elections here in the US like the Green or Independent Parties do.

No it wouldn't be intolerant to deny Christian socialism as a political organization. Remember: separation of church and state.

Christian Socialism isn't a church. It is socialism with a Christian face.

Why must everything be such a radical view to you?

It is only radical to you.

Why can you not allow others to practice as they feel is appropriate?

Others do practice as they feel appropriate. It is Christian Socialists whom you would feel justified in being intolerant of, as you stated above.

You seem to think that your view is the only view that matters.

Whose view should I be arguing - yours?

That all people should be forced to see it in your view because you are the only one who truly understands what the bible says and what God wants.

I just express my view as everyone else does, even if they don't like it. Don't you like debating Christianity?

Guess what, Hitler thought the same thing. Get a clue.

So did Marx, Engles, Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin, Mao and Castro. You do favor socialism, don't you?

1) No, I don't favor socialism
2) MLK's cause wasn't righteous because of some delusional belief you have in your mind. It was righteous because equality should be an inherent right for any US citizen. You should have the same opportunities regardless of your race, sex. or religious convictions. Before you spout out absolute nonesense, take a few history courses because you really give the African-American movement a bad name.

[Cathar1950]

Why don't you just join or form a Hutterite colony?

Mack the Hutterites are communists.

I know we in the USA cant tell the difference between Marxism, Socialism, and Communism as we tend to lump them all together here in out politics but you went to school in Canada and like every grade school child in Europe know the dissimilarities and variations.
There are many European countries that are socialists and democratic.

When I think of socialist Christians I mentally see socialist Nazis. But I do get the impression that maybe we are talking about Christian nationalist and as usual JCrawford has his words ether mixed up of so personal that we are talking past each other.

I have an affinity to the Mennonites even if I have a more Ebonite tendency and have grown away from any Biblicist and xenophobic absolutes.
So I am biased. But this is more personal history as I admire these traditions. In Evangelical and Mennonite sensitivities such as Howard Snyder and others there is a social concern and activity that finds its root in early Christianity and the prophets. Then there is liberation theology that I also find admirable and personally experiences that I have had as a one-time supporter of Mennonite and Quaker thinking. The one thing I recall likening about the Anabaptists was their idea of discipleship or faithfulness as different from salvation thru faith or the sacraments. The early church or assembly seems communistic but it is hard to say if this was due to their apocalyptic expectations and not any different then the community of the "Way" and other Jewish sects.

So to answer you question.
I would like to know what you mean by socialist.
It seems you will buy any political form or ideology as long as it is Christian.
So another question is what exactly does Christian socialist believe and practice as a political entity such as a Democrat or Republican? I guess they could have a Christian Democrat party.

[jcrawford]

Why don't you just join or form a Hutterite colony?

It is more intellectually challenging and stimulating to form socialist cells amongst the Christian populations of North, Central and South America.

I am confidant that the Hutterites, Amish and Dukhabors will vote for us since we encourge self-sufficiency, social cohesion and a mutually beneficial social contract between Christians.

[jcrawford]

1) No, I don't favor socialism

The only alternative in the US is Christian, Jewish and Islamic Capitalism.

2) MLK's cause wasn't righteous because of some delusional belief you have in your mind. It was righteous because equality should be an inherent right for any US citizen. You should have the same opportunities regardless of your race, sex. or religious convictions.

Then Jews, Christians and Muslims have as much right to establish their own form of governments as "equal opportunity" secularists do.

Before you spout out absolute nonesense, take a few history courses because you really give the African-American movement a bad name.

The African-American movement for civil rights is a Christian Socialist movement, unless for some strange reason, you would call MLK, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton capitalist and secular pigs.

[jcrawford]

Why don't you just join or form a Hutterite colony?

Mack the Hutterites are communists.

Christian communists of the Christian Socialist kind.

I know we in the USA cant tell the difference between Marxism, Socialism, and Communism as we tend to lump them all together here in out politics but you went to school in Canada and like every grade school child in Europe know the dissimilarities and variations.

Canada is almost as socialistic as any old Christian Scandinavian country is nowadays. Problem with most Canadians is that they don't understand that Christianity is the most socialistic form of government on earth and they think that they can keep Jews and Christians out of civil government by passing laws against them. Roman and European history proves that despite persecution, Christians and Jews eventually take over the function of government since no other group on earth has the laws of God by which to establish heavenly justice on earth.

There are many European countries that are socialists and democratic.

Socialism in formerly Christian countries is more democratic than feudal Christian capitalism ever was.

When I think of socialist Christians I mentally see socialist Nazis. But I do get the impression that maybe we are talking about Christian nationalist and as usual JCrawford has his words ether mixed up of so personal that we are talking past each other.

You have Christian democrats, Christian Socialists and Christian Unionists in Germany now. As long as they are Christian and don't persecute Jews, I see no problem with Christian Socialism or nationalism in any country now that secular communism is dead and Islamic socialism is on the rise.

I have an affinity to the Mennonites even if I have a more Ebonite tendency and have grown away from any Biblicist and xenophobic absolutes.
So I am biased. But this is more personal history as I admire these traditions. In Evangelical and Mennonite sensitivities such as Howard Snyder and others there is a social concern and activity that finds its root in early Christianity and the prophets. Then there is liberation theology that I also find admirable and personally experiences that I have had as a one-time supporter of Mennonite and Quaker thinking. The one thing I recall likening about the Anabaptists was their idea of discipleship or faithfulness as different from salvation thru faith or the sacraments. The early church or assembly seems communistic but it is hard to say if this was due to their apocalyptic expectations and not any different then the community of the "Way" and other Jewish sects.

Thank you for the intelligent and Christian comments above even if somewhat biased, as you say. Everyone seems to have prejudices about something and it is human nature to sympathize with one group more than another in matters of religion and politics.

So to answer you question.
I would like to know what you mean by socialist.

Since Christian Socialism or socialism per se are rather difficult political concepts to pin down with an absolute definition, I would simply qualify Christian Socialism as being a democratic form of government similar to the secular socialism we now have in the US, but one in which Christians would not be politically repressed, suppressed or oppressed on the basis of practicing their free exercise of religion in public schools and government.

It seems you will buy any political form or ideology as long as it is Christian.

Christians are bound to experience different forms of government throughout history. The only really pertinent question is which form of government is best suited for Christians to live under. I don't particularly care what you call it as long as the majority of Christians are satisfied with it and it doesn't make second class citizens out of Christians by telling them that their religion and American politics don't mix. Civil Rights seem to have benefited many groups in the name of secular equality and government, while Christians are now forced to sit in the back of the secular bus singing "We shall overcome" to themselves.

So another question is what exactly does Christian socialist believe and practice as a political entity such as a Democrat or Republican? I guess they could have a Christian Democrat party.

We already have a Democratic Christian Party and a Republican Christian Party dominated by secular purists afraid to challenge SCOTUS rulings regarding the subordination of the church to the state. What Christians need now in the US is a radical Christian Socalist Party to challenge the mind and soul destroying policies of the secular abortionists and feminists.