Is torture ever justifiable?

[otseng]

In light of the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal, do you think torture is ever justifiable? Or is it wrong no matter what the situation?

[perfessor]

perfessor wrote:

This makes no sense. If you don't understand atheism, don't speculate.

This life is the only life, what a terrible tragedy it is to lose it needlessly - or cause another to lose his. What a terrible, reprehensible thing to cause pain and suffering, since there will be no "reward" in heaven to compensate the victim.

I am not speculating, I happen to be an atheist, though you may argue that I don't "Understand" atheism

Jeff, I must apologize – obviously I jumped to an unwarranted conclusion. I guess I hear a lot of people telling me how atheists think, or don’t think – I sometimes react defensively when I shouldn’t.

I have a lot of difficulty with heavily hypothetical scenarios. It is one thing to sit in the comfort of one’s home, tapping away at a keyboard, deciding what one would or wouldn’t do, or what someone else should or shouldn’t do, and why. But in the heat of the moment, with adrenaline and who knows what other emotions running rampant – it’s hard to put much faith in a hypothetical answer.

Back to the specific question – “Is torture ever justifiable?” There are only 2 possible answers – yes and no. But in reality, there are lots of shades, depending on the definition of words like “torture” and “justifiable”. For example – a prisoner, who has not been charged with any serious crime, and who has no particular intelligence value, is forced into some uncomfortable, or degrading, or humiliating, activities. Torture? Maybe not. Justifiable? Absolutely not.

On the other hand – and now I’m getting hypothetical, against my better judgment – if a prisoner has specific knowledge, with many lives on the line, I would say, stop at nothing to get that information. No jury would convict. But I wouldn’t want to be the one who had to do it!!

And if you ask me the logical next question – “How many ‘lives on the line’ would justify torture?” My answer is “I don’t know.”

Here in Chicago, there has been an ongoing scandal with the Police Department, and one officer in particular. It turns out that for years, if he “knew” that a suspect was guilty – particularly of murder – he had ways of making sure that the suspect confessed. Perhaps he felt he was doing society a favor by removing uncertainty from the trial – but this is certainly not the American way. In fact, if suspects walk because the confession is thrown out, we all suffer harm as a result.

JeffHayes wrote:

You may personally find that torture is repugnant, however I fail to see how that "Invalidates" torture from being a choice. You have effectivly asserted that your life is not worth torturing sombody else for.

I didn't say that. Are you referring to someone else's post?

At any rate, I don't think you and I need to split hairs on the issue. I would bet that most of us - excepting psychopaths and Gandhis - probably feel pretty much the same.

[Angry McFurious]

In light of the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal, do you think torture is ever justifiable? Or is it wrong no matter what the situation?

I hardly consider that torture. Have you ever read the PoW reports from Vietnam? *shiver* I mean the prisoners that are captured by americans are allowed food, medical treatment, and safety. By the G.C. rules they are only allowed to be made to stand for no longer than 4 hours. My job makes me stand for 8 hours. What a cake walk. yay i got captured by the americans!!!! For crying out loud some people lied just so the americans would take them in and give them food.

[ST88]

I find that torture for information is a terrible moral dilemma for me. I don't think I could bring myself to physically torture someone even in a life-or-death situation. I just don't have the stomach for it.

However, thinking about it, I would have no problem administering pharmaceuticals to make the subject more talkative, assuming such pharmaceuticals exist. Maybe even if they caused a degree of pain, like heroin withdrawl or some such. Is that torture? I can't say -- I only know such things from the movies.

[concerro]

I think torture is wrong no matter what.

What if the torture allows the torturer to extract information that could save thousands of lives, and harm only one?

I believe there other ways to extract information than just torture.

Also, what exactly constitutes torture?

The Merriam-Webster dictionary defines it as this:
2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure

Yep, I think torture is wrong.

Torturing for no reason is wrong. If you are trying to get information then I'm all for it.

[concerro]

In light of the Iraqi prisoner abuse scandal, do you think torture is ever justifiable? Or is it wrong no matter what the situation?

I hardly consider that torture. Have you ever read the PoW reports from Vietnam? *shiver* I mean the prisoners that are captured by americans are allowed food, medical treatment, and safety. By the G.C. rules they are only allowed to be made to stand for no longer than 4 hours. My job makes me stand for 8 hours. What a cake walk. yay i got captured by the americans!!!! For crying out loud some people lied just so the americans would take them in and give them food.

I agree that was really more harrasment and humiliation than anything else, but considerng the fact that they think it is ok to ambush us after the war is over and cut people's heads off they are lucky they did not get worse. One of my coworkers suggested that for every american they kidnap that the air force bomb a city block. That may be extreme but sometimes I wish we had a president just as extreme as they are. enough of my ranting my point was made in the first sentence.

[chrispalasz]

Torture is okay if it is evil being tortured... and only by God. This is a just punishment for those who choose to be tortured rather than choosing the good, love, and righteousness of God.

Matthew 18:34
"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him."

Hell will be torture!

[palmera]

GL311: can you give a real world example of a case in which the torturing of another human being is acceptable?

[concerro]

Torture is okay if it is evil being tortured... and only by God. This is a just punishment for those who choose to be tortured rather than choosing the good, love, and righteousness of God.

Matthew 18:34
"And his lord, moved with anger, handed him over to the torturers until he should repay all that was owed him."

Hell will be torture!

God's righteousness is not all that hard to call into question. He has killed to many people just because.

[potwalloper.]

ST88 wrote

I find that torture for information is a terrible moral dilemma for me. I don't think I could bring myself to physically torture someone even in a life-or-death situation. I just don't have the stomach for it.

In my view there is no moral dilemma. Torture can never be justified whatever the circumstances - it is a fundamental breach of human rights and no matter how you try to rationalise it it is wrong.

To obtain information? So who is to decide when it is right to torture and when to not? Who is to set the parameters for information value? Should there be an official torturer who makes the decision? Should it be televised - it would make a great reality TV show, who needs Big Brother we've got Celebrity Torture the programme where YOU make the choice!

No society that calls itself civilised should ever engage in the torture of another human being - period.