Question to/about Americans.

[Scrotum]

As you all know (oldies) i have not been very active during the last year or so. I apologize for this and wish to point out that i Love this site. I think Otseng, even the Theist (JOKE) scumm He is , has created a very FAIR and open debate forum for all of us, and I can find very few Forums like this.

As a starter, I will go on the General Chat and talk Americans, as most of you are americans, and simple ask some questions, and I would like to have Your, Honest View about it.


I was sitting and "watching" a movie called "War of the World" with a Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise (dont remember), i only remember the original book/movie, so this was "interesting" to watch. Several (Everything happen in the U.S) of the people stated "how could they defeat the greatest power in the World" several times, and it was clear they refered to the United States (As americans generally dont know anything about the rest of the World), and it came to me like a Flash, Could This be the reason why Americans believe they are the best in the world?

Historically we know the basis for the general ignorance about the World americans Hold (Note: The AVERAGE American), I do not know if americans themselves know this, as I understood american History is not very accurate, but as refreshment for the New Generation:

During the Beginning and End of Second World War, the american population had little or no knowledge about what was actually going on. The U.S, both people and Government had seen Chancellor Adolf Hitler as a great rolemodel, but as the War in Europe Began, all that was ignored/pretended never to have been said, and now Germany was "Evil", and Adolf Hitler was a "Bad Guy". The so called Holocaust was not known until after the war, which most contemporary americans have no knowledge about.

When the war finally "Finished" (Officially), the american government did not tell the american people that it was the Soviet Union whom actually dealt with the War, whiles the U.S only sent an equal amount of troops to the British. Actually, 80% of the German Army (The most powerfull and skilled Army in the World during this time) was fought by the Soviet Union, which was also seen as "Evil" (The Allies).

The Government instead avoided talking about it, and let the americna people believe They where the ones "taking care of business", and said nothing about the Soviets. 60 Years later, the people still believe this, and seemingly the American History books have been altered to fit the fale propaganda, and personally, I believe that the lied so much to themselves, Both choosen Government, as well as the people, that they seriously believe their own lies.


Could this be the case?

Americans rarely admits anyone else being "Better" then them, and simple ignore Reality. Especially when it comes to the Evil/Jealous Europeans. But at the Same time, BMW, Mercedes, Ferrary are all seen as a sign of "Best" / "Superiority" Etc, all European Cars. I know States and counties whom have the funds, would change their Police cars into Swedish Volvos instead, as they are of better quality then American Cars.

We should not even talk about the Mobile Phone Industries, which the U.S are years behind compared to Europe and Asia.


But this is no Bash, this is rather self-reflection, Could what i say be True !?



BIG NOTE: This is about the AVERAGE, General American, We all have Idiots and Morrons everywhere. Just a General View.

[Confused]

As you all know (oldies) i have not been very active during the last year or so. I apologize for this and wish to point out that i Love this site. I think Otseng, even the Theist (JOKE) scumm He is , has created a very FAIR and open debate forum for all of us, and I can find very few Forums like this.

As a starter, I will go on the General Chat and talk Americans, as most of you are americans, and simple ask some questions, and I would like to have Your, Honest View about it.


I was sitting and "watching" a movie called "War of the World" with a Brad Pitt or Tom Cruise (dont remember), i only remember the original book/movie, so this was "interesting" to watch. Several (Everything happen in the U.S) of the people stated "how could they defeat the greatest power in the World" several times, and it was clear they refered to the United States (As americans generally dont know anything about the rest of the World), and it came to me like a Flash, Could This be the reason why Americans believe they are the best in the world?

Historically we know the basis for the general ignorance about the World americans Hold (Note: The AVERAGE American), I do not know if americans themselves know this, as I understood american History is not very accurate, but as refreshment for the New Generation:

During the Beginning and End of Second World War, the american population had little or no knowledge about what was actually going on. The U.S, both people and Government had seen Chancellor Adolf Hitler as a great rolemodel, but as the War in Europe Began, all that was ignored/pretended never to have been said, and now Germany was "Evil", and Adolf Hitler was a "Bad Guy". The so called Holocaust was not known until after the war, which most contemporary americans have no knowledge about.

When the war finally "Finished" (Officially), the american government did not tell the american people that it was the Soviet Union whom actually dealt with the War, whiles the U.S only sent an equal amount of troops to the British. Actually, 80% of the German Army (The most powerfull and skilled Army in the World during this time) was fought by the Soviet Union, which was also seen as "Evil" (The Allies).

The Government instead avoided talking about it, and let the americna people believe They where the ones "taking care of business", and said nothing about the Soviets. 60 Years later, the people still believe this, and seemingly the American History books have been altered to fit the fale propaganda, and personally, I believe that the lied so much to themselves, Both choosen Government, as well as the people, that they seriously believe their own lies.


Could this be the case?

Americans rarely admits anyone else being "Better" then them, and simple ignore Reality. Especially when it comes to the Evil/Jealous Europeans. But at the Same time, BMW, Mercedes, Ferrary are all seen as a sign of "Best" / "Superiority" Etc, all European Cars. I know States and counties whom have the funds, would change their Police cars into Swedish Volvos instead, as they are of better quality then American Cars.

We should not even talk about the Mobile Phone Industries, which the U.S are years behind compared to Europe and Asia.


But this is no Bash, this is rather self-reflection, Could what i say be True !?



BIG NOTE: This is about the AVERAGE, General American, We all have Idiots and Morrons everywhere. Just a General View.

First off: War of the Worlds was with Tom Cruise and no person or country defeated the invasion of the "aliens". A common virus is what killed them. So your reference is so out of context it lacks any sense of originality.

2) As for the average American History: Tell me, when were you in the United States and where did you take American History courses to make such a claim? Since you are making this claim, I am assuming you, at some point, came to the United States and took some University courses in American History.

3) In regards to the WW2, you are corrrect, the US didn't get involved until after Japan attacked us. However, to say we were unaware of the Holocaust until after the war was over and Russia had defeated Germany is quite a huge leap. I seem to recall quite a few films of American troops liberating surivivors and I wonder if all the children who lost their fathers in WWII would agree that the US did minimal to nothing. Now, I have taken American History, several courses actually at Ohio State University, at Johns Hopkins University, and at University of Nevada. All three universities taught about the major role Russia had in WWII. None of them glorified the US involvement. Actually, many of the instructors criticised the governement for their delayed reaction. Tell me, what role did Sweden play? What did you do to stop the Germans from their actions.

4) No bash, but self reflection? Are you American? If not, then your implications are just that, a bash. I don't know to many Americans who don't say frequently that nothing is made in America. But many things are invented in America. Tell me, does Bill Gates live in Europe? How about Donald Trump? I don't claim everything, or even a quarter of everything is invented in the US, but before you sit on your high throne and dictate about self-reflection, don't you think you ought to know the people you are criticizing. I am guessing you used to live in the US, though I could be wrong, found it to be stifling and left as soon as you could. If not, then you have no right to judge. Now, let us see, what has Sweden invented? What have they contributed to the global economy? More liberal views on sex, drugs, freedoms, etc..... Great for Sweden, but does nothing for the rest of the world.

[Furrowed Brow]

More stats here

Germany Total deaths 7,500,000 Percentage of Population 10.77%
Japan Total deaths 2,600,000 Percentage of Population 3.61%
United Kingdom Total deaths 450,400 Percentage of Population 0.94%
United States Total deaths 418,500 Percentage of Population 0.32%

TOTAL DEATHS SUFFERED 10,968,900

Soviet Union Total deaths 23,200,000 Percentage of Population 13.77%

In the UK we are kind of brought up (at least someone of my generation) on the idea that WWII was our war. The Americans coming in at the last to snatch all the glory. Whilst Britain lost the Empire and nearly bankrupted itself in fighting the war, America managed to turn a profit. (Though that may be apocryphal - anybody know the stats?) So I think all nations/culture have an understandable tendency to put themselves at the centre of the story.

However the statistics of death tolls tell a different story.

I think we should also not give to much credence to Hollywood’s version of history. I remember an Errol Flynn movie about the Burma campaigns that made it seem the Americans had won Burma, whilst Burma was a British campaign, and the Americans hardly figured at all. Then there was a more recent movie about the capture of an enigma machine by Americans. Whilst in reality it was the British. So I think Hollywood is guilty of reinforcing American-centricism. And don't even get me started on Mel Gibson's The Patriot.

[Scrotum]

I have no idea what "Swedish Inventions" have anything to do with this. As i said, and Furrowed Brow made the point, I was talking about American Arrogance thats so ingrained in the American Society that they dont know it themselves.

If Inventions are important, this Site
is readable, and i recommend it. Do you know anything about Sweden (Its a country in Northern Europe).


Sweden did quite a deal, but you would not know about it, as this would demand Education about Europe, which i rarely seen in the country (Yes i lived there). One guy, which you probably know about as there is a movie about him, called Schindler got Jews out because of a man named Wallenberg (very famous in the world). Other things would be ammounition that did not work (supplied by Sweden), and a freeground for hundreds of thousands of refuges.

And Yes, The Holocaust was NOT KNOW ABOUT until the Soviet Army FOUND THE FIRST extermination Camp.

[Furrowed Brow]

I have no idea what "Swedish Inventions" have anything to do with this. As i said, and Furrowed Brow made the point, I was talking about American Arrogance thats so ingrained in the American Society that they dont know it themselves.

If Inventions are important, this Site
is readable, and i recommend it. Do you know anything about Sweden (Its a country in Northern Europe).


Sweden did quite a deal, but you would not know about it, as this would demand Education about Europe, which i rarely seen in the country (Yes i lived there). One guy, which you probably know about as there is a movie about him, called Schindler got Jews out because of a man named Wallenberg (very famous in the world). Other things would be ammounition that did not work (supplied by Sweden), and a freeground for hundreds of thousands of refuges.

And Yes, The Holocaust was NOT KNOW ABOUT until the Soviet Army FOUND THE FIRST extermination Camp.

Well err sorry I don't think I implied American's were arrogant. In fact the ones I've met are very polite and interested. Though that would be the kind of Americans who are visiting Europe. I can't speak for the ones I have not met.

I do feel there has been a deep anti American sentiment, which has been exacerbated by the Iraq war, but it was there prior to 9/11. I see it here in the UK.

The point I was really making in my last post was that WWII was predominantly a Nazi German/Soviet war. The Eastern front being the major front. Whilst America and the Allies played a minor secondary role. Now if I had said that to my gran who lived through WWII she would have spluttered up her cup of tea. From her perspective (and people of her generation) the war was Britain versus Nazi Germany - and the Soviets had hardly anything to do with it.

I've just watched a documentary this afternoon where it was argued the real winners of WWII was the Soviets and communism. This is the kind of viewpoint that has been lacking I think.

[EnigmaAtlas]

I read a book called Warlords...i forget who by, but they have interviews with FDR, stalin, hitler and Churchills assistents etc etc and replay the war on almost a weekly basis.

when the battle of Britain came, Churchill would stop at nothing to find an ally. Stalin didnt care and FDR didnt want to get involved. for the longest time they only ally to the UK was France... which lasted long *rolls eyes*

it wasnt until Hitler opened up on the Eastrn front by taking the whole of Poland (against USSR agreements) was the UK able to breath a bit. and with the introduction of US to the war, it was a whole new ballgame...


however WWII being UK's war is hardly close. USSR took the biggest beating and pushed the NAzi's right back to Berlin where they captured it. The US pushed up from France and the rest is history. im not saying the UK didnt do much...cause they did, they did a shit load! but in reguards to the last stages of the war, it shifted from Churchill and rested with FDR (and Truman) and Stalin. Hence the Cold War.

Put it this way. If it wasnt for Hitler being an idiot and attacking Russia...im not sure if the UK would be around right now...even if it was it would be desimated.

off the war now... there is much resentment for americans because they come off as superior powercraving idiots. but hey, being the only superpower left in the world and being able to do pretty much whatever you want as we saw with the Iraq war... who wouldnt be?

[upallnite]

"how could they defeat the greatest power in the World"

Do you deny that America is the only superpower left? I think America being the only super power left is where comments like that come from.

Could This be the reason why Americans believe they are the best in the world?

I think patriotism is why people refer to their country being the best in the world. I don't think you can single America out on this one.

whiles the U.S only sent an equal amount of troops to the British.

How many do you think we should of sent? Keep in mind we were not fighting for our country, we were helping the Europeans. Our battle was mostly in the pacific.

and seemingly the American History books have been altered to fit the fale propaganda,

Can you show me a history (book used in America) that supports your position?

Americans rarely admits anyone else being "Better" then them, and simple ignore Reality. Especially when it comes to the Evil/Jealous Europeans. But at the Same time, BMW, Mercedes, Ferrary are all seen as a sign of "Best" / "Superiority" Etc, all European Cars. I know States and counties whom have the funds, would change their Police cars into Swedish Volvos instead, as they are of better quality then American Cars.

I own USDM, JDM, and European cars. I actually have a Volvo. It is a pain to work on. My Chevy and Dodge are easy to work on and my Honda is even easier. Comparing gas milage it is my Honda, Volvo, Dodge, then Chevy(in that order). In cost ,cheapest to most expensive it is, Chevy, Dodge, Honda, Volvo. Durability Dodge, Volvo, Honda, Chevy. Reliability Volvo, Honda, Chevy, Dodge.
So the Volvo might be the most reliable but it is also the hardest to work on and the most expensive of my cars. If you want to debate cars I'm game.

BIG NOTE: This is about the AVERAGE, General American, We all have Idiots and Morrons everywhere. Just a General View.

But I am the average American. Well, except for the whole Atheist thing.

[upallnite]

Stupid American double posting again. Sorry.

[Confused]

I have no idea what "Swedish Inventions" have anything to do with this. As i said, and Furrowed Brow made the point, I was talking about American Arrogance thats so ingrained in the American Society that they dont know it themselves.

If Inventions are important, this Site
is readable, and i recommend it. Do you know anything about Sweden (Its a country in Northern Europe).


Sweden did quite a deal, but you would not know about it, as this would demand Education about Europe, which i rarely seen in the country (Yes i lived there). One guy, which you probably know about as there is a movie about him, called Schindler got Jews out because of a man named Wallenberg (very famous in the world). Other things would be ammounition that did not work (supplied by Sweden), and a freeground for hundreds of thousands of refuges.

And Yes, The Holocaust was NOT KNOW ABOUT until the Soviet Army FOUND THE FIRST extermination Camp.

!) already admitted we came in late
2) never implied we were the first to discover what was being done in concentration camps, but we did know about it long before the war was over.
3) never claimed Russia didn't fight hard and lose more people, and furrowed brow-yes the US did make a profit off it.
4) When and where did you take American History?
5) Your appeal to the ignorance of the average American can be applied to any society, but unless you have polled the average American and found what they say confirms you perception, I will assume you are about as uninformed as you claim Americans t be.
6) Every American History class I have ever taken has usually been taught by an extremist in political views so they tend to slam the government for much of what was done such as waiting so long to become involved in WWII, ever getting involved in the Vietnam conflict (yes you and I both know it was a war, but it was never formally claimed one so we have to call it a conflict), Cuba, and now Iraq.
7) But hey, I will give you just what you want, and be an arrogant American and say next time, we will just allow Germany to exterminate all of europe so there won't be people like you to sit back and blame us for getting involved to late, yet criticize us when we get involved at all (Iraq).

[Confused]

I read a book called Warlords...i forget who by, but they have interviews with FDR, stalin, hitler and Churchills assistents etc etc and replay the war on almost a weekly basis.

when the battle of Britain came, Churchill would stop at nothing to find an ally. Stalin didnt care and FDR didnt want to get involved. for the longest time they only ally to the UK was France... which lasted long *rolls eyes*

it wasnt until Hitler opened up on the Eastrn front by taking the whole of Poland (against USSR agreements) was the UK able to breath a bit. and with the introduction of US to the war, it was a whole new ballgame...


however WWII being UK's war is hardly close. USSR took the biggest beating and pushed the NAzi's right back to Berlin where they captured it. The US pushed up from France and the rest is history. im not saying the UK didnt do much...cause they did, they did a xxx load! but in reguards to the last stages of the war, it shifted from Churchill and rested with FDR (and Truman) and Stalin. Hence the Cold War.

Put it this way. If it wasnt for Hitler being an idiot and attacking Russia...im not sure if the UK would be around right now...even if it was it would be desimated.

off the war now... there is much resentment for americans because they come off as superior powercraving idiots. but hey, being the only superpower left in the world and being able to do pretty much whatever you want as we saw with the Iraq war... who wouldnt be?

In reality, I don't think that Americans could ever be as arrogant as the French.