Hell

[Mick]

I go back and forth between eternal conscious hell and conditional immortality (eventual annihilation). I would like to hear what verse(s) convince you of your belief in this matter. I can see both sides but, of course, both can't be true. What do you say?

I am new here and this is my first post so if you don't hear from me again it means I am lost and trying to find my way around.

God bless,
Mick

[onewithhim]

[Replying to post 30 by Mick]

That's what it means.

[1213]

I go back and forth between eternal conscious hell and conditional immortality (eventual annihilation). I would like to hear what verse(s) convince you of your belief in this matter. I can see both sides but, of course, both can't be true. What do you say?

I think people don’t live and therefore don't feel anything in hell. Reason why I think so is these:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

[onewithhim]

I go back and forth between eternal conscious hell and conditional immortality (eventual annihilation). I would like to hear what verse(s) convince you of your belief in this matter. I can see both sides but, of course, both can't be true. What do you say?

I think people don’t live and therefore don't feel anything in hell. Reason why I think so is these:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

It's not clear why you think those scriptures show that people won't feel anything in "hell."

If they won't, then what is the purpose AT ALL of having them consciously suffer their imprisonment? They aren't going to be released, ever. Therefore it is reasonable that those people who enter "the lake of fire" are, in reality, merely annihilated completely.

Would you read over the posts up to now? It would help the discussion if you were aware of what other people have already posted.



https://www.jw.org/en/search/?q=Hell

[1213]

It's not clear why you think those scriptures show that people won't feel anything in "hell."

If they won't, then what is the purpose AT ALL of having them consciously suffer their imprisonment?

The scripture says they are destroyed. How could somebody that is destroyed feel anything, or suffer?

And as the Bible tells, eternal life is for righteous, not for unrighteous. If one doesn’t live, how could he suffer or feel or do anything?

Would you read over the posts up to now?

I have read and didn’t notice anything that would make difference in to my answers.

[OnceConvinced]

So you believe that perish means annihilation.

That's all it can possibly mean. Any other meaning is not a standard meaning of the word.

Also if you look at the word in context it's the only thing it can mean. It says that "Whoever believes shall have eternal life". Whoever doesn't believe does not get to have eternal life. Eternal suffering would be a form of eternal life, wouldn't it? So perishing can't be eternal suffering otherwise it creates a contradiction in the verse.

For "perish" to mean anything else put annihilation, the verse would have to be worded something like this:

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, so that whoever believes in him will not suffer for all eternity but have everlasting life in Heaven instead.

But no, it's not worded in that context. Its specifically saying that if you don't believe in him you won't be living forever. Thus it's impossible that suffering in Hell can be eternal.

[tam]

[Replying to post 35 by OnceConvinced]

Peace to you OC!

I really liked your post.

But just to clarify one point for the sake of accuracy:

Its specifically saying that if you don't believe in him you won't be living forever.

The verse is states that if you DO believe in Him, then you WILL be living forever.



The verse itself does not actually speak to those who do not believe in Him. People make the implication that if those who believe in him shall not perish but receive everlasting life, it must mean that those who do not believe in him shall perish and not receive everlasting life.

But that is not necessarily so.





But to everything else, well said.



Peace to you!
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[Mick]

So you believe that perish means annihilation.

That's all it can possibly mean. Any other meaning is not a standard meaning of the word.

I agree. I can see the argument for annihilation but have trouble with Revelation 14 and Rev 20. I am aware that Revelation is very symbolic but it has meaning and part of that meaning seems to include eternal suffering.

All doctrines have their "difficult verses". It seems to me that the Beast and False Prophet are humans and so Rev. 20:10 has me thinking of eternal torment. Having said that, the majority of verses sway me to annihilation.

What do you say about the Beast and False prophet?

Also, how do I set things up so that I get notification of posts? I nearly missed yours.

God bless,
Mick

[Mick]

[Replying to post 35 by OnceConvinced]

The verse itself does not actually speak to those who do not believe in Him. People make the implication that if those who believe in him shall not perish but receive everlasting life, it must mean that those who do not believe in him shall perish and not receive everlasting life.

The following verse specifically says that those who don't believe will not see life. John 3:36, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life".

Surely those who don't see life, see death ... the second death where the soul is destroyed - Matt. 10:28, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell".

God bless,
Mick

[tam]

[Replying to post 35 by OnceConvinced]

The verse itself does not actually speak to those who do not believe in Him. People make the implication that if those who believe in him shall not perish but receive everlasting life, it must mean that those who do not believe in him shall perish and not receive everlasting life.

The following verse specifically says that those who don't believe will not see life. John 3:36, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life".

To be accurate, the verse states that those who REJECT the Son will not see life. (which makes sense, since the Son IS the LIFE: I am the Truth, the Way and the Life) How can you reject life and receive life at the same time?


However, those sheep (from the sheep and the goats parable) do GOOD to Christ. Unknowingly, sure, because they have to ask 'when did we do [those things] to you?'. But Christ answered that whatever they did to a least one of His brothers, they did to Him.

These sheep are not Christian. The sheep and the goats are people from the nations (from all walks of life) who are alive at the time that Christ returns.

These sheep are not rejecting Christ. They are not like the faithful (who belong to Christ - who had already crossed over from death to life already, because the LIFE - Christ - is in them). But they are still granted life when Christ returns because of what they did, how they treated, even the least of his brothers; thereby doing good to HIM.




Peace also to you, as my Lord gives peace,
your servant and a slave of Christ,
tammy

[JehovahsWitness]

[Replying to post 35 by OnceConvinced]

The verse itself does not actually speak to those who do not believe in Him. People make the implication that if those who believe in him shall not perish but receive everlasting life, it must mean that those who do not believe in him shall perish and not receive everlasting life.

The following verse specifically says that those who don't believe will not see life. John 3:36, "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life".

Surely those who don't see life, see death ... the second death where the soul is destroyed - Matt. 10:28, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell".

God bless,
Mick

That makes sense; I don't think that it is reasonable to conclude that those that have been destroyed by God continue to live.


JW