I pray you join my religion

[methylatedghosts]

i will start to pray for alan, that you can experience some real improvement in his behavior and stability, and that you can in time visit a church who will minister to you in a way that resembles more closely the love and compassion of Christ, which is (despite your unfortunate experiences!) real and without limit

This was posted by pyrite in response to one of Confused's posts.

And it kinda got me to think.

I have no problem whatsoever with the first part about praying for health - thats great.

My thoughts are, that Christianity is about "spreading the love of Christ".

But also is it not about allowing people to choose for themselves.

Now, is it not also a part of Christianity, that believes that prayer is powerful enough to change someones health, or even their mind.

Is it therefore right for a Christian to pray that someone join their church or religion, if we take the points "allowing people to choose for themselves" and "that prayer works" as true?

Because, wouldn't this prayer cause a change in the persons mind so that it isn't of their own choice?


(Just to be sure, pyrite, I'm not saying that this is what you are praying for, but just that this is where my thoughts came from )

[methylatedghosts]

Ok, so people have voted, but not given reasons or comments?

[Galphanore]

If you insist; I don't pray because it has been found to not only not create a positive effect but, in fact, has a negative effect on those who know they are being prayed for and no effect for those who do not know they are being prayed for. So in all actuality, prayer is worse then the placebo effect.

[methylatedghosts]

Hmmm, that page isn't loading for me. (On really slow dialup). But I've never heard someone say that prayer has negative effects. Now I'm curious... what are the negative effects?

[Galphanore]

Hmmm, that page isn't loading for me. (On really slow dialup). But I've never heard someone say that prayer has negative effects. Now I'm curious... what are the negative effects?

Here is the most specific part of the link in reference to that :

• The study looked for any complications within 30 days of the surgery. Results showed no effect of prayer on complication-free recovery. But 59 percent of the patients who knew they were being prayed for developed a complication, versus 52 percent of those who were told it was just a possibility.

It was a recent study, done in march, it followed about 1,800 patients at six medical centers, and was financed by the Templeton Foundation, which supports research into science and religion. It is supposed to have been the largest study of it's kind, and they published the results in the American Heart Journal, because it was a study of the effects on post heart surgery complications.

The conclusion I draw from this is that prayer it's self has no effect, but that if you tell someone that they are being prayed for then it increases their stress because they worry "Why would someone need to pray for me?" "Am I in worse shape then they told me?", so finding out that people feel the need to pray for you while you are getting surgery leads people to think they are going to have trouble, and then, ironically, leads to complications from the stress of worrying if they need to worry.

[pyrite]

i will start to pray for alan, that you can experience some real improvement in his behavior and stability, and that you can in time visit a church who will minister to you in a way that resembles more closely the love and compassion of Christ, which is (despite your unfortunate experiences!) real and without limit

This was posted by pyrite in response to one of Confused's posts.

And it kinda got me to think.

I have no problem whatsoever with the first part about praying for health - thats great.

My thoughts are, that Christianity is about "spreading the love of Christ".

But also is it not about allowing people to choose for themselves.

Now, is it not also a part of Christianity, that believes that prayer is powerful enough to change someones health, or even their mind.

Is it therefore right for a Christian to pray that someone join their church or religion, if we take the points "allowing people to choose for themselves" and "that prayer works" as true?

Because, wouldn't this prayer cause a change in the persons mind so that it isn't of their own choice?


(Just to be sure, pyrite, I'm not saying that this is what you are praying for, but just that this is where my thoughts came from )

i'm a little offended that my offer to pray for a child has turned into a poll

[Galphanore]

i will start to pray for alan, that you can experience some real improvement in his behavior and stability, and that you can in time visit a church who will minister to you in a way that resembles more closely the love and compassion of Christ, which is (despite your unfortunate experiences!) real and without limit

This was posted by pyrite in response to one of Confused's posts. And it kinda got me to think. I have no problem whatsoever with the first part about praying for health - thats great. My thoughts are, that Christianity is about "spreading the love of Christ". But also is it not about allowing people to choose for themselves. Now, is it not also a part of Christianity, that believes that prayer is powerful enough to change someones health, or even their mind. Is it therefore right for a Christian to pray that someone join their church or religion, if we take the points "allowing people to choose for themselves" and "that prayer works" as true? Because, wouldn't this prayer cause a change in the persons mind so that it isn't of their own choice? (Just to be sure, pyrite, I'm not saying that this is what you are praying for, but just that this is where my thoughts came from )

i'm a little offended that my offer to pray for a child has turned into a poll

It caused someone to wonder about the effects of prayer. Lots of posts lead to new threads, why does this one offend you?

[pyrite]

for the record, though.. i'm praying that he would be healed first and foremost, but also that he would come to know the love of Christ. this is more important than him 'joining my religion', as i like to draw a major distinction between the two - Christ is the key issue, the religion that is built around him is secondary, and mostly faulty anyway (only some churches are even close to being on track with the church model presented in the book of acts, which is what i believe to be the ideal model)

[pyrite]

i will start to pray for alan, that you can experience some real improvement in his behavior and stability, and that you can in time visit a church who will minister to you in a way that resembles more closely the love and compassion of Christ, which is (despite your unfortunate experiences!) real and without limit

This was posted by pyrite in response to one of Confused's posts. And it kinda got me to think. I have no problem whatsoever with the first part about praying for health - thats great. My thoughts are, that Christianity is about "spreading the love of Christ". But also is it not about allowing people to choose for themselves. Now, is it not also a part of Christianity, that believes that prayer is powerful enough to change someones health, or even their mind. Is it therefore right for a Christian to pray that someone join their church or religion, if we take the points "allowing people to choose for themselves" and "that prayer works" as true? Because, wouldn't this prayer cause a change in the persons mind so that it isn't of their own choice? (Just to be sure, pyrite, I'm not saying that this is what you are praying for, but just that this is where my thoughts came from )

i'm a little offended that my offer to pray for a child has turned into a poll

It caused someone to wonder about the effects of prayer. Lots of posts lead to new threads, why does this one offend you?

it was a personal offer to pray for Confused's son, not meant to be open for debate or scrutiny (i guess you've gotta be careful what you post on a public forum!). i understand your point though, i know it's not a personal stab

[Galphanore]

for the record, though.. i'm praying that he would be healed first and foremost, but also that he would come to know the love of Christ. this is more important than him 'joining my religion', as i like to draw a major distinction between the two - Christ is the key issue, the religion that is built around him is secondary, and mostly faulty anyway (only some churches are even close to being on track with the church model presented in the book of acts, which is what i believe to be the ideal model)

Did you look at the link I provided above? It shows that a test paid for by the Templeton Foundation, an institution that supports religious research, found that prayer leads to an increase in complications when the person knows they are being prayed for, and no effect when they do not.