Willfully Ignorant Dishonesty

[William]

[Replying to post 506 by William]

"In relation to the points the rest of my post brought up, which clearly showed great gaps of logic in the JWOs particular belief systems about that, they best not come knocking on my door spamming me about those, if they are unable/unwilling to question their own beliefs in the face of the logic of common sense, for they will be meet with rebuke on that count, because I for one disdain willfully ignorant dishonesty. no matter how dressed up it makes itself, for the sake of appearance."

Religious faith may appear as 'willfuly ignorant dishonesty' to an observer who only sees things from natural sciences, space and time and matter.
Scientists acknowledge there may may be many dimensions of life.
What call the spiritual, is just one of those dimensions.
To some people it is real to others it is not.

In my mind, whether it is a response from the religious, or for that matter, culturally or politically based belief, willful ignorance is a dishonest way in which to respond to pertinent questions which expose holes in the logic of the stories and accompanying belief systems of those who support what they think of as truth, and attempt to ply that into the public arena.

I think it is dishonest when I go to the trouble of making a point to show what I see as gaping holes in the logic of said stories and belief in those stories, for the believer in those stories to ignore me or otherwise skirt said points, or bring in unrelated points of argument as a way to steer the debate/discussion away from having to give any coherent answer to those points.

I am here to learn, and while I am no great debater, I can still smell a rat (as the saying goes) and think I do okay at pointing out where the smell is coming from in an effort to get to some kind of truth on the matter. Find the problem and deal with the problem.

As far as I can tell, that is what debating is about right?

So how is it that a religious person (or a defender of religious peoples right to believe what they will) can use a forum such as this and not have to be honest but are entitled to be willfully ignorant in relation to others consistently attempting to show them the holes in their theories of belief when they choose to bring those beliefs to this public forum and in ignoring pertinent challenges to those beliefs, they essentially continue to place those beliefs onto the table of debate as it were, but do not actually respond to those hard questions asked when such requirement for honest evaluation of said beliefs becomes necessary...to ignore others who ask legitimate question of concern as to the logical validity of said beliefs, and yet continue to table those beliefs (often by continually re-posting through quoting entire posts) this practice takes on the appearance of spamming - of using the forum to spam their beliefs/the beliefs of their religious organisation.

Religious faith may appear as 'willfuly ignorant dishonesty' to an observer who only sees things from natural sciences, space and time and matter.

By an large, this is still a poor understanding of what is actually going on. I myself am not atheist or anti-theist. I think that this universe is the product of a creator being and I use the forum to share my thoughts on that and things related to that, and am not afraid to answer questions, or examine what I think and tweak it to suit new data if indeed anyone, naturalist or otherwise, brings something pertinent to the table which requires my questioning/examining said ideas which I think are correct (beliefs if you will) so I am not strictly "an observer who only sees things from natural sciences, space and time and matter." and do not think that this is a reasonable excuse for what clearly IS willful ignorance - an ignorance designed to protect ones precious belief systems (dogma really) unquestionably.

So - what do other members think about this?

[alwayson]

I think that this universe is the product of a creator being

1. How do you know that your creator does not live, die and reincarnate like the creator Brahma in Hinduism/Buddhism?

2. Why can't the Big Bang naturally have its cause in a previous/another universe?

[William]

[Replying to post 2 by alwayson]

Hi alwayson

There is a forum section on this message board called "Members Notes" where you can find my, quite substantial writing, re my thoughts on the Idea of GOD.
There is also a forum section where you can ask me questions where I would be happy to answer them.

This particular thread is focused upon Willfully Ignorant Dishonesty, something which apparently no one is particularly interested in one way or the other, judging by lack of responses so far.
Your post here, in itself, is not relative to the topic of this thread.

Cheers.

William

[OnceConvinced]

Moderator Action

Moved to general chat.


______________

Moderator actions indicate that a thread/post has been locked, moved, merged, or split.

[Zzyzx]

.

This particular thread is focused upon Willfully Ignorant Dishonesty, something which apparently no one is particularly interested in one way or the other, judging by lack of responses so far.

Lack of response for a few hours doesn't necessarily indicate lack of interest in the topic.

Willful ignorance extends far beyond use as a debate tactic. It can be a way of life for those who refuse to learn anything that conflicts with their ingrained beliefs and emotional positions (particularly religious beliefs). When one's life is built around beliefs it is DANGEROUS to think about things that contradict what one has been told about gods.

It is not surprising that people become emotional when their core beliefs are challenged. It is perhaps better to pretend ignorance (or to deliberately remain ignorant) than to discover that the beliefs upon which one has structured life are questionable or false.

[William]

[Replying to post 5 by Zzyzx]

Lack of response for a few hours doesn't necessarily indicate lack of interest in the topic.

Today s the 8th. The thread was created on the 5th. View count says 93. I think it is safe enough to assume that there in little interest in this = at least as a debating topic. Shifted to general chat, perhaps that might change now.

Willful ignorance extends far beyond use as a debate tactic.

What are your thoughts on it being accepted as a debate tactic?

It can be a way of life for those who refuse to learn anything that conflicts with their ingrained beliefs and emotional positions (particularly religious beliefs).

I would have to say that while the tendency may be for non theist to think this is applicable particularly in relation to religious beliefs, Willfully Ignorant Dishonesty is no better coming from the secular sector, for that. It is what it is, regardless. That is why I mentioned cultural and political sectors as well.

When one's life is built around beliefs it is DANGEROUS to think about things that contradict what one has been told about gods.

Beliefs which won't be questioned, secular or religious, are dangerous because they directly translate into this world, and have that negative impact.
So essentially, to think about the effect of one's beliefs (whatever they may be) in relation to the damage they may be helping to support, is to be willfully honest. Thus really, to be honest about one's beliefs in that light, is helpful rather than dangerous.

It is not surprising that people become emotional when their core beliefs are challenged. It is perhaps better to pretend ignorance (or to deliberately remain ignorant) than to discover that the beliefs upon which one has structured life are questionable or false.

Certainly. Beliefs say a lot about those who believe whatever the beliefs are.