In another thread a theist member accused non-theists of seeing this website as a battleground. ie a place where a war rages between believers and non-believers.
Do you see this website as a battleground? A war?
Is this website a battleground?
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OnceConvinced
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Is this website a battleground?
Post #1Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
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rikuoamero
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Post #2
Yup. pokes theists with spear now I could've sworn I called in a napalm strike...
Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"
I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead
Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense
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McCulloch
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Re: Is this website a battleground?
Post #3[Replying to post 1 by OnceConvinced]
I don't look at it this way. What benefit is there to just winning or losing a debate? I'm confident enough in my own intelligence not to need to win battles of wits on the web.
I want to lose the debate. If someone else wins a debate against me, I've had an opportunity to learn something, to correct my own erroneous thinking and I've come that much closer to knowing the truth. If I win, all I've done is confirmed and strengthened what I already believe.
I don't look at it this way. What benefit is there to just winning or losing a debate? I'm confident enough in my own intelligence not to need to win battles of wits on the web.
I want to lose the debate. If someone else wins a debate against me, I've had an opportunity to learn something, to correct my own erroneous thinking and I've come that much closer to knowing the truth. If I win, all I've done is confirmed and strengthened what I already believe.
Examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good.
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
First Epistle to the Church of the Thessalonians
The truth will make you free.
Gospel of John
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rikuoamero
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Re: Is this website a battleground?
Post #4I'm the same way McC. I initially joined DC'n'R to have my atheist arguments defeated. Over time my expectation of that ever happening has steadily decreased.McCulloch wrote: [Replying to post 1 by OnceConvinced]
I don't look at it this way. What benefit is there to just winning or losing a debate? I'm confident enough in my own intelligence not to need to win battles of wits on the web.
I want to lose the debate. If someone else wins a debate against me, I've had an opportunity to learn something, to correct my own erroneous thinking and I've come that much closer to knowing the truth. If I win, all I've done is confirmed and strengthened what I already believe.
Your life is your own. Rise up and live it - Richard Rahl, Sword of Truth Book 6 "Faith of the Fallen"
I condemn all gods who dare demand my fealty, who won't look me in the face so's I know who it is I gotta fealty to. -- JoeyKnotHead
Some force seems to restrict me from buying into the apparent nonsense that others find so easy to buy into. Having no religious or supernatural beliefs of my own, I just call that force reason. -- Tired of the Nonsense
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Neatras
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Post #5
I've mostly come here to figure out what arguments creationists make against science. I think I've seen almost all of them, so now it's just a matter of waiting for someone new to come along.
It's a shame none of them are convincing, though.
For me, it's not a battleground: It's a controlled lab setting for me to study interesting subjects.
It's a shame none of them are convincing, though.
For me, it's not a battleground: It's a controlled lab setting for me to study interesting subjects.
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bluethread
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Post #6
Maybe that is why we do not cross swords, so to speak. I do not see the Scriptures as scientific documentation and I believe that science has very limited utility when it comes to history, culture and morality. I appreciate what science has provided regarding verifying empirical data and processes through repeated replication. In kind, I hope you also appreciate that scientific verification does not equate to historical, cultural or moral certitude.Neatras wrote: I've mostly come here to figure out what arguments creationists make against science. I think I've seen almost all of them, so now it's just a matter of waiting for someone new to come along.
It's a shame none of them are convincing, though.
For me, it's not a battleground: It's a controlled lab setting for me to study interesting subjects.
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Zzyzx
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Post #7
.
It appears to me as though the 'two sides of the aisle' view the debates differently. Theists seem more inclined to view debate as a battle to defend their religious beliefs; whereas, Non-Theists have no need to defend 'I don't believe that'. Theists have stories and claims to defend whereas 'I don't believe' requires no defense.
Religions are emotionally based (love, fear, hate, hope, etc) and depend upon emotional commitment by believers. A challenge to or attack on beliefs is often regarded as a personal attack (by those who do not differentiate between themselves and their religious beliefs or its characters).
Although I sometimes use the battle analogy, that is not my preferred approach. My replies to opposition debaters are actually intended toward readers -- people who might well be searching for answers and directions for themselves. Until recently the information available to them was heavily weighted in favor of religion (and still is to some extent). Religious propaganda permeates US society and social pressure is toward conforming to religious affiliation. I choose to challenge that propaganda and to present opposition views.
The battleground analogy seems to fit with 'Crusaders' who appear intent upon 'slaying the infidel' with their 'sword of righteousness' while cloaked 'in the armor of God' -- all from the Bible or religious dogma. Swinging wildly but without much finesse isn't usually very successful and many choose to become 'martyrs' for the 'cause'.
Very few Apologists seem equipped to debate on our 'level playing field' without resorting to attacking science, education, intelligence -- or attacking opposition debaters personally. Perhaps not having the Bible regarded as 'trump card' and ultimate proof of truth is disconcerting to those accustomed to having that as an advantage.
It appears to me as though the 'two sides of the aisle' view the debates differently. Theists seem more inclined to view debate as a battle to defend their religious beliefs; whereas, Non-Theists have no need to defend 'I don't believe that'. Theists have stories and claims to defend whereas 'I don't believe' requires no defense.
Religions are emotionally based (love, fear, hate, hope, etc) and depend upon emotional commitment by believers. A challenge to or attack on beliefs is often regarded as a personal attack (by those who do not differentiate between themselves and their religious beliefs or its characters).
Although I sometimes use the battle analogy, that is not my preferred approach. My replies to opposition debaters are actually intended toward readers -- people who might well be searching for answers and directions for themselves. Until recently the information available to them was heavily weighted in favor of religion (and still is to some extent). Religious propaganda permeates US society and social pressure is toward conforming to religious affiliation. I choose to challenge that propaganda and to present opposition views.
The battleground analogy seems to fit with 'Crusaders' who appear intent upon 'slaying the infidel' with their 'sword of righteousness' while cloaked 'in the armor of God' -- all from the Bible or religious dogma. Swinging wildly but without much finesse isn't usually very successful and many choose to become 'martyrs' for the 'cause'.
Very few Apologists seem equipped to debate on our 'level playing field' without resorting to attacking science, education, intelligence -- or attacking opposition debaters personally. Perhaps not having the Bible regarded as 'trump card' and ultimate proof of truth is disconcerting to those accustomed to having that as an advantage.
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Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
Non-Theist
ANY of the thousands of "gods" proposed, imagined, worshiped, loved, feared, and/or fought over by humans MAY exist -- awaiting verifiable evidence
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benchwarmer
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Post #8
I imagine many theists also find it quite disconcerting when many on 'the other side of the aisle' seem to have just as strong or even stronger grasp of the material in the Bible. The 'trump card' is often swiftly picked up off the table and played right back at them with equal or greater force to show the 'truth' in question may not be as first thought. Or more often than not, the trump card was really just a deuce.Zzyzx wrote: Perhaps not having the Bible regarded as 'trump card' and ultimate proof of truth is disconcerting to those accustomed to having that as an advantage.
Regarding the OP, I don't see this site as a battle ground between people, but I do see it in some ways as a battle ground for truth.
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OnceConvinced
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Re: Is this website a battleground?
Post #9Funny you guys should say this because when I first came here I was hoping that maybe I would find reasons to believe in Jesus again. That I would be able to get answers to the questions that had been bugging me. But like you, all it did was cement my disbelief.rikuoamero wrote: I'm the same way McC. I initially joined DC'n'R to have my atheist arguments defeated. Over time my expectation of that ever happening has steadily decreased.
Before anyone suggests I should go to a biased Christians website where I only get the Christian method, that was basically what I did all my life as part of churches. Hung out with only Christians listening only to them. (and the bible of course). I came to this website because I wanted a website where both sides of the argument could be debated. Where no side was given preferential treatment. I had to see all the arguments from both sides and see which ones stood the strongest.
Society and its morals evolve and will continue to evolve. The bible however remains the same and just requires more and more apologetics and claims of "metaphors" and "symbolism" to justify it.
Prayer is like rubbing an old bottle and hoping that a genie will pop out and grant you three wishes.
There is much about this world that is mind boggling and impressive, but I see no need whatsoever to put it down to magical super powered beings.
Check out my website: Recker's World
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Bust Nak
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Re: Is this website a battleground?
Post #10I do see this website as a battleground, I have given up trying to convince others, I now debate for the win.OnceConvinced wrote: In another thread a theist member accused non-theists of seeing this website as a battleground. ie a place where a war rages between believers and non-believers.
Do you see this website as a battleground? A war?
