Supernatural help?

[Zzyzx]

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Supernatural help?

If people acknowledge getting supernatural help in the form of wisdom or knowledge from gods or spirits, are they admitting gaining an unfair advantage in debate?

If those being helped still do not fare well in debate, could it be that 1) they started way behind, 2) the helping entity isn't very capable, 3) the 'help' is imaginary?

In life beyond debate those who claim to be helped supernaturally don't seem to be any more knowledgeable, wise, capable than others (and often less so). Could it be that 1 – 3 above apply in life as well as debate?

[Divine Insight]

Interesting points.

In fact, I have never been given a compelling answer to my following question:

If God and Jesus were unable to convince me of their supernatural wisdom and intelligence via their "Holy Scriptures", why should a mere mortal evangelist hope to be able to convince me? Clearly the mortal evangelist would need to succeed at something that both Yahweh and Jesus had failed at.

Also, as you suggest, even if the mere mortal evangelist claims to be obtaining help from the "Holy Spirit" this would only imply that all three have failed, Jesus, Yahweh, and the Holy Spirit. Because I haven't met a convincing evangelist yet.

Also why do evangelists from different Christian denominations offer different and often contradictory apologies for the scriptures that have already failed on their own?

And how could I tell the "True Evangelists" from the "False ones"?

I would think that the best way to tell them apart would be to only believe the evangelists who are actually making sense. The only problem with that is that I have yet to meet any evangelists who make any sense. Therefore, based on that criteria I can only conclude that I have never met a "True Evangelist".

And if I ever did, there would still be the problem that the evangelist was able to succeed at something that both Jesus and Yahweh had themselves failed at. And that doesn't make any sense either.

But up to this point in my life I haven't run into that conundrum since I have yet to meet an evangelist who is able to offer meaningful apologies for why Jesus and Yahweh had failed so miserably.

I mean, seriously. You'd think that Yahweh should have been able to convince me already in his Old Testament. And surely Jesus would have at least succeeded in convincing me in the New Testament. But they had two shots at this and they both failed entirely. Neither has given me any reason to believe these stories are anything more than the hearsay rumors of an ignorant and barbaric male-chauvinistic society.

The conclusion that these are just religious folklore from a society that doesn't even have moral values as high as my own seems to be the only rational solution thus far. I mean, the story of Jesus certainly tries to improve on the immorality of Yahweh, but it doesn't even do that convincingly, IMHO.

[OnceConvinced]

Any form of supernatural help should be deemed as cheating, especially by those who believe in the supernatural. I think it would be unethical to pray to God for anything that would involve God doing you favours over others or helping a person to perform better, eg getting that job, passing that test, winning that game. Anyone asking for such favours should be ashamed of themselves.

But seriously, if God was giving supernatural help, we should expect to see theist members dominating the debates here, tearing down all the arguments against them and showing their great supernatural wisdom. But we don't.

[Zzyzx]

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But seriously, if God was giving supernatural help, we should expect to see theist members dominating the debates here, tearing down all the arguments against them and showing their great supernatural wisdom. But we don't.

In fact, we see exactly the opposite. Debates are dominated by Non-Theists. Very few Theists stay active very long. No Theist is nominated as Best Debater 2016. Of the 15 top 'Like' receivers only two are Theists (one of whom is a Deist).

If gods or spirits are helping their followers to show the advantage of debate or 'spread the word', they are not very competent gods / spirits.

WHY is Theism so poorly represented?

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 4 by Zzyzx]

Additionally, why is it that theists tend to overlook when other theists (of similar denomination) are exceptionally poor at debate? I've seen several occasions where some will even offer up their support for the most outlandish posts, posts that even contain a denial of gravity.

Introspection and humility should be one of the hallmarks of the Christian religion, no?