Science and Consciousness

[OpenYourEyes]

This video is a TED talk of Nanci Trivellato who is an intelligent Brazilian woman with a graduate degree in research methods of psychology. She had an out-of-body experience as a child.

Nanci Trivellato's presentation is strictly academic (but not technical!) and no religion is involved. She makes the best and organized case for this matter that I've seen so far which is why I thought everyone might enjoy!!

[youtube][/youtube]
19 minute video

- She starts off by describing her childhood OBE experiences.
- She then talks about common features in OBEs throughout the general population.
- She then discusses the need for a consciousness specialty science and lays out a blueprint of what that science should involve (the methods, criteria, etc).
- Enjoy!

[benchwarmer]

[Replying to post 1 by OpenYourEyes]

I watched the video. Very interesting, so thanks for posting that. I really like TED talks.

However, I'm not sure how the video lines up with your poll question. There is already a branch of science that studies this kind of stuff. From the following link:

http://icc.iacworld.org/portfolio/book-launch/

Nanci Trivellato, MSc., is a consciousness researcher and an instructor with the International Academy of Consciousness (IAC). She is a charter member of the IAC and has been dedicated to developing consciousness science for over 25 years. Trivellato is the founder of the Journal of Conscientiology and was its editor-in-chief for 15 years. She is the winner of the 2nd IAC Global Award for Scientific Contribution to Conscientiology.

I chose to abstain from the poll because if I take the question literally, then no a 'new science' does not need to be created. It already exists.

For those who haven't bothered watching the video, it really is a good talk. She very carefully keeps it science focused and even calls out some of the pseudoscience that some would use to try and explain OBEs.

[OpenYourEyes]

[Replying to post 11 by benchwarmer]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the video.

The group of scientists who are devoted to studying consciousness are usually seen more as a fringe group instead of being inline with mainstream science. I think part of the reason for that is that these scientists tend to also advocate and/or lump in too many different non-mainstream phenomena, like ESP, psychokinesis, NDEs, past-lives, etc. I think the only way to be effective at incorporating a new science or perspective or theoretical framework for consciousness based on pre-existing scientific data, is if we have a clear focus, like conscious viewed as a separate entity from body but still within it and what we can deduce from that (OBEs, NDEs) and nothing more.

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 11 by benchwarmer]

I think the only way to be effective at incorporating a new science or perspective or theoretical framework for consciousness based on pre-existing scientific data, is if we have a clear focus, like conscious viewed as a separate entity from body but still within it and what we can deduce from that (OBEs, NDEs) and nothing more.

Are you saying we should find evidence of the bold part of the statement? Or are you saying we should work off of the assumption that that portion of the statement is true?

[OpenYourEyes]

[Replying to post 11 by benchwarmer]

I think the only way to be effective at incorporating a new science or perspective or theoretical framework for consciousness based on pre-existing scientific data, is if we have a clear focus, like conscious viewed as a separate entity from body but still within it and what we can deduce from that (OBEs, NDEs) and nothing more.

Are you saying we should find evidence of the bold part of the statement? Or are you saying we should work off of the assumption that that portion of the statement is true?

There is already a line of evidence that makes mind-body dualism plausible. In short, the main evidence is the fact that an unobservable aspect of the mind is able to affect brain structure which shows that brain structure is influenced by thought/behavior and not just brain influencing thought/behavior. And by affecting brain structure, I'm not just referring to neurons firing since that would happen with any activity, even w/ the act of imagining. But rather I'm referring to the reconfiguring of parts of the brain that can happen out of reaction to subjective stimuli.

We need a theoretical framework for all of this to provide clarity/coherency, standards or methods for further approach or research, predictions, etc. The video that I posted proposes a theoretical framework. Without this framework you're left with unclarity in that people will try to lump in all types of different phenomena, perhaps in thinking that this will legitimize all types of extraordinary claims, and this will lead to incongruent theories and research that is all over the place.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 14 by OpenYourEyes]

Near Death with Dr. Raymond Moody, Consciousness exploration at Monroe Institute for over 30ys. and there are others. The idea is to get away from bodily senses and enter deeper states of meditaion here helped by HemySync sounds.

This is beginners program at Monroe Institute:
Wave I Discovery - Introduces the Mind Awake/Body Asleep state (Focus 10) and other "mental tools" to help you experience states of expanded awareness
Wave II Threshold - Learn more Focus 10 "mental tools" and benefit from exercises which take you to a state of expanded awareness known as Focus 12
Wave III Freedom - Enjoy Focus 10 and Focus 12 exercises developed specifically to make the methods for perceiving and controlling your non-physical energy a comfortable and joyous experience
Wave IV Adventure - Explore new experiences, new ideas, new places and new friends
Wave V Exploring - (A Journey to Focus 15) From the now-familiar state of Focus 12, you will be introduced to Focus 15 — the "No Time" state - the state of simply being
Wave VI Odyssey - (A Journey to Focus 21) Embark upon an odyssey of self-discovery. Wave VI features high adventure exercises in Focus 21 (the bridge to other energy systems)

https://www.monroeinstitute.org/Online%20Programs

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 15 by Monta]

I have to say I'm not surprised that you're willing to dip into pseudo-science.

I'd love to see the peer reviewed journals detailing how any "consciousness exploration" experiments are conducted at Monroe Institute.

For example, I expect someone to present novel experiences and knowledge by using these methods in order to actually gain insight into the world around them. Perhaps the ability to converse with an individual thousands of miles away without using any physical methods? Oh wait, that's not possible because this is all bunk.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 15 by Monta]

I have to say I'm not surprised that you're willing to dip into pseudo-science.

I'd love to see the peer reviewed journals detailing how any "consciousness exploration" experiments are conducted at Monroe Institute.

I'll save you the trouble of 'looking for it'.

http://www.lucid-mind-center.com/monroe_institute.html
http://www.hemi-sync.com/hemi-sync-tech ... -articles/
https://www.monroeinstitute.org/Article ... 20Research

[Neatras]

[Replying to post 17 by Monta]

Thanks for the links. I could make a pithy remark about how it's "interesting, but not convincing" however I'll save that for later.

My skepticism is grounded in firm cynicism regarding the motives of the institute, and the effectiveness of the course.

It can easily be argued that meditation and focus techniques can better improve mental acuity in some aspects. I won't argue that the mind is immutable, or can't be improved; that would be ridiculous.

However, any organization that uses nebulous phrases such as "achieving true potential," "Total Self," and "lead more fulfilling lives" should be regarded as dubious from the outset. $2,400 for a week-long spa treatment with the slogan of making someone a more "effective individual" has caused many people to succumb to pseudo-science and religion, including, I might add, scientology.

Scientology operates not by inducting members into the full Xenu approach from the start, but by making small commitments along the way that scale up until they're leeching money from the vulnerable and compelling them to behave in self-destructive ways. In some ways, the organization will encourage behavior that are labeled as "progressive, enhancing, or expanding awareness," but in reality infantilize the participant, and cause them to regress mentally into a malleable, gullible member.

If the Monroe Institute is capable of producing results in line with psychiatric improvement techniques, then it should be encouraged. However, there are thousands of hacks out there, and the Monroe Institute has the onus put on it to distinguish itself as a legitimate institution.

It should be noted that binaural beats can have links to hypnosis and ritualistically altered states of mind.

Pseudo-science is often disguised by half-truths, and is never introduced at the beginning of a course. Rather, the students are eased into it over a period of some weeks, with the more extreme and unverified claims inserted under deceptive means later in the course. An institute professing proficiency in shaping or 'unlocking' minds should be treated with special care.

[Monta]

[Replying to post 18 by Neatras]

"Pseudo-science is often disguised by half-truths, and is never introduced at the beginning of a course. Rather, the students are eased into it over a period of some weeks, with the more extreme and unverified claims inserted under deceptive means later in the course. An institute professing proficiency in shaping or 'unlocking' minds should be treated with special care."

In all areas of learning you have a beginners course.

Monroe Istitute is famous because of its founder, a daring researcher who wrote three books: Robert Monroe.
Can not imagine anyone signing up for a course or buying CD's would not have read his books first.

You may have noticed that most of the research papers were by those with PhD.