Good Reason

[Zzyzx]

.
From the Internet

http://www.goodreasonblog.com/2015/12/c ... nt-is.html

Added question for debate and moved from General Chat to C&A upon request from others.

Does the story of God (or part of God) sacrificing himself to himself (or another part of himself) to atone for "sins" of humans make ANY sense?

[Divine Insight]

Granted the Bible is contradictory on this matter.

This is the only confession I require.

This renders the list of verses you've listed to be a moot point. All you've done is go through and cherry pick the verses that you like whilst sweeping the contradictory verses under the carpet.

At least you acknowledge they are there.

Moreover, the whole Christian dogma is meaningless is all this God is interested in is sincere repentance. If that's the case then even a complete atheist who doesn't believe that any Gods exist at all, but yet still feels bad about various things they may have done and is remorseful over them, has already repented in his heart. Therefore he has qualified as having repented even thought he's not the least bit religious.

In fact, we can even point to the teachings of Jesus on that one. Jesus claims that to even think about lusting after a woman is the same as having committed adultery.

Well, if that's the case, then to even think about repenting over things a person might have done is necessarily also the same as having actually repented.

The bottom line in all of this is that neither the Old Testament, nor Jesus, nor any belief in any of this would then be required at all. And being an atheist is just as good as being a "Christian" or anything else.

It would ultimately come down to having nothing at all about religion or a God, but it would be entirely based upon what an individual actually feels in their heart.

Moreover, as I have suggested many times over, anyone who actually feels a need to believe in Jesus, or God, in order to repent or feel remorse about anything is already a person who can't possibly be sincere about feeling remorse. Because if they felt remorse on their own they wouldn't need Jesus to teach them to feel this way. And if they need Jesus to teach them to feel this way, then that doesn't say much for their own character.

So no matter how we cut it, Jesus becomes a totally useless and moot point in this religion. Anyone who needs to be taught the difference between right and wrong and what they need to feel remorse over is already in seriously bad shape.

And for those of us who don't need to be taught these things these religions are absolutely absurd.

How can you teach someone to feel remorse about things if they don't actually feel that way? That's not even rational.

Remorse is nothing something that can be taught. A person either feels remorse for what they have done or they don't. If the only reason they are feeling remorse is because they think some God will be angry with them otherwise, then it's not true remorse that they are feeling anyone. It's most likely that they are feeling fear and sorry for themselves because they might be damned.

So even if all the contradictory teachings of these mythologies could somehow be justified, the idea that humans need to be taught to feel love, or remorse or anything like that would still be an oxymoron.

~~~~~

And finally, the Eastern Mystical religions already have far better philosophies describing what a God might actually be like. They don't even require any apologies.

So if we're going to believe in a religion and a God why choose a crippled self-contradictory religion that requires endless apologies that don't even hold water? Why not just move over to a religion that doesn't require any apologies at all?

[Elijah John]

Granted the Bible is contradictory on this matter.

This is the only confession I require.

This renders the list of verses you've listed to be a moot point. All you've done is go through and cherry pick the verses that you like whilst sweeping the contradictory verses under the carpet.

And conventional Christianity does the same...they sweep these verses and others like them, under the carpet. They ignore or distort the verses that don't fit their priestly narrative that God needs blood in order to forgive.

Remember, even John the Baptist performed baptisms "of repentance for the forgiveness of sins". No blood involved! (contradicting that verse in Hebrews).

Regarding simple repentance found even in atheists? As a Theist, I believe conscience is from God. So if an Atheist follows their conscience and repents for whatever wrong they might have done, it seems to me anyway they are following God, even unwittingly.

Even Paul suggests as much in the beginning of Romans.

[Zzyzx]

.

Regarding simple repentance found even in atheists? As a Theist, I believe conscience is from God. So if an Atheist follows their conscience and repents for whatever wrong they might have done, it seems to me anyway they are following God, even unwittingly.

Why attempt to give God credit for what is done without God?

If one happens to do some things I promote (without acquaintance or influence from me), does that indicate they are "following" me? If so, I can claim Bernie Sanders as a follower because he says and does some things I promote.

[PghPanther]

It makes no sense to sacrifice a material object or plant/animal......or a human that had nothing to do with the liabilities of your trespasses......as a substitute for yours.

Furthermore, even if it did......... to have that claimed "Son of God" sacrifice rise up in a perfect eternal body 3 days later is no sacrifice at all anyway...............

Think of all wasted plants and animals that were sacrificed in the OT which once destroy or killed was it for those things or animals no rising back to life or growing for any of it anymore........

People used to do this to the sun thinking it was a personal supernatural object that would respond since they depended on it for the growing season of harvest for food and grazing for animals to eat.

I'm thinking they just changed out superstitious behavior from the sun to a being that made it all...........but that approach is the same.

Don't understand how the universe works?.

Attribute it to a being and switch out the sacrifice and atonement from an object like the sun to a conceived imagined being....

Everyone whether atheists, agnostic or theist of any measure should be grateful they live in an age of scientific enlightenment because this whole atonement thing is baggage from the age of ignorance and superstition.