Why i focus on homosexuality

[OpenYourEyes]

Some members, like Danmark and even otseng, have questioned why i focus on homosexuality so much as if it's a bad thing for me to do. The reason I focus mainly on that issue and not as much on other topics is for two reasons: it is a big objection to Christianity that lots of times is ineffectively addressed, and secondly it's one of my strong areas (The bold font part addresses my strengths and their benefit).

Christians have been losing major ground to the LGBT, or really just the LGT, movement with the increasing acceptance of homosexuality in our culture. A lot of the Christian arguments tend to be biblically based with a narrow view on the history of marriage. So in my view, many Christian responses are ineffective and weak, which takes me to my next point on my strengths on the matter.

I believe one thing that can improve amy Christian response would be to become knowledgeable on sexual orientation, especially on some of the claims of gay advocates. I dont have a reasonable and effective Christian response but I am fairly knowledgeable on the subject since i wrote a research paper on it. So instead of using my strengths on the subject to argue the typical Christian responses, i instead counter some of the faulty claims of gay advocates that tend to mislead people. For instance, because of many interactions with gay advocates at school and online, i was led to believe that homosexuality was an innate and immutable trait. After i did my own research and listened to debates on BOTH sides, i found that some of the claims of gay advocates were untrue. I even found that some of their claims were purposely propagated to help get the issue more accepted by a wider (including Christian) audience.

So far, with the help of others I've had some success as shown in the data from 2 threads which i take to be a representative sample of the views of this forum on 2 key issues dealing w/ sexual orientation. I'll present the data from responses on the cause and immutability of homosexuality:

Debate question #1: Is it scientifically justified to say that homosexuality is caused by biology just like eye color, skin color, gender, etc?

My data shows 90% of forum members in the debate thread responded with " no". The "no" response means that homosexuality is not solely a product of biology.

1. Psychiatric Association? No!
2. American Psychological Association? No!
3. OpenYourEyes? No (post #34)
4. KenRU? No! (post #35)
5. Haven? No! (post #9)
6. bluethread? No! (post 174 and post #176)
7. ScioVeritas? No! (post #65)
8. MasterOfOnesOwnMind? No! (post #44)
9. RKO_? No! (post #84)
10. liamconnor? No! (post #14)
11. Hamsaka? No! (post #15)
12. ttruscott? No! (post #16)
13. Bust Nak? No! (post #33)
14. Hautey? No! (post #50)
15. H.sapiens? No! Late convert. (ppost # 181, last paragraph)
16. enviousintheeveafter? No! (post #252
17. Danmark? No! (post #255)
18. pshun2404? No! (post #283
19. instantc? No (post #308 and
post #312)

20. DanieltheDragon? Yes (post #29)
21. SailorCyclops? Yes.

22. JoeyKnothead? Apathetic or Agnostic (post #25)

Debate question #2: Is it scientifically justified to say that homosexuality is immutable for both men and women?
In other words does homosexuality remain fixed throughout a person's entire lifetime?

The responses show 100% of the participants who answered said "no" meaning that homosexuality is NOT immutable.

1. DanieltheDragon? No! (also refer to post #5)
2. enviousintheeverafter? No!
3.Clownboat? No!
4. Danmark? No!
5. Youkilledkenny? No!
6. Bust Nak? No!
7. Strider234? No!
8. OpenYourEyes? No!


9. Divine Insight? Apathetic

[bluethread]

All is see is a "search for truth" that denies the truth of homosexuals' humanity.

I must have missed that. What specific human attribute is being denied to homosexuals on this thread?

[OpenYourEyes]

[Replying to post 20 by JoeyKnothead]

Wow. The all powerful Joey. The one that picks at Christian comments and constantly demands verifiable evidence and TRUTH is now saying that the science and truth does not matter when it comes to homosexuality.

No one ever presumes that you have "nefarious" reasons for picking at Christian forum members statements, so I think the same respect is owed to people who are here to debate the issue, 'honestly' and with evidence.

[JoeyKnothead]

From Post 22:

Wow. The all powerful Joey.

If I was all powerful, how come I gotta do chores the pretty thing tells me, or I don't get me no supper?

I'm here to tell it, it's its own power not to do you no chores. But a empty stomach's a far more powerful one of it.

The one that picks at Christian comments and constantly demands verifiable evidence and TRUTH is now saying that the science and truth does not matter when it comes to homosexuality.

D'you see that part where I declared the truth of their humanity?

Do you wish to challenge my declaration that homosexuals are human?

No one ever presumes that you have "nefarious" reasons for picking at Christian forum members statements
...

I respect that my history and psychology might produce a good plenty nefarity on my part. I respect the observer has a nefariometer on me at all times. I only ask they hook up the rest of us.

so I think the same respect is owed to people who don't do cheerleading for gays but who are here to debate the issue, 'honestly' and with evidence.

Respect is earned, not offered simply 'cause one can propose topics for debate.

If you find my posts don't offer you the respect you think you oughta be a-gettin', report such posts, and let's see if you can get you any respect from anyone else.

That you consider supporting homosexuals to be "cheerleading" indicates to me you'd prefer they had nobody to help defend 'em.

[OpenYourEyes]

so I think the same respect is owed to people who don't do cheerleading for gays but who are here to debate the issue, 'honestly' and with evidence.

Respect is earned, not offered simply 'cause one can propose topics for debate.

If you find my posts don't offer you the respect you think you oughta be a-gettin', report such posts, and let's see if you can get you any respect from anyone else.

That you consider supporting homosexuals to be "cheerleading" indicates to me you'd prefer they had nobody to help defend 'em.

Sure respect can be earned, and just as long as you realize that debating on homosexuality is not a sign of disrespect, then we can start there.

[OnceConvinced]

Clearly Openyoureyes, being gay is something that you yourself could choose to do. You could go into a relationship with a member of the same sex. It would not disgust you or horrify you. In fact it would appeal to you. Well good on you, but for me it would just not be possible. I don't have a gay bone in my body. The entire thought disgusts me, so therefore I could never choose to be gay. But ok, you could. That's fine. I'm not gonna argue about that.

My problem is that there is already enough people targetting homosexuals. They don't need another campaigner. It's like they're making it this huge issue, but there are so many more important issues that should be dealt with. Why aren't they up and arms about child abuse? Why aren't they starting threads on the Internet about stopping people from raping others or from sexually abusing children?

But ok, so maybe we all know that rape and child abuse is wrong. But what about other crucial biblical issues? Like wearing clothes of mixed fabrics. This is an abomination to God, so why not take that campaign? This issue needs to be addressed because just about every human being wears clothes of mixed fabric as if it were perfectly normal and ok. Christians should be outraged! They should be staging protests.

And what about the eating of unclean animals like shellfish and prawns? This sort of thing is running rampant in modern society and Christians are not saying anything! Why aren't you up in arms about that? Stopping people from committing these horrible attrocities?

And guess what. There are way too many women these days teaching the bible. God completely forbids this! They are to remain silent and take teaching, but NEVER teach men. But it's happening. Should you be out there staging protests about women being in positions of leadership? But no, you choose a campaign that already has hundreds, if not thousands of Christians making a big fuss about.

Perhaps someone needs to start sorting out these other issues rather than just focussing on the gays? You'd think that maybe they were closet gays themselves.

[OpenYourEyes]

Clearly Openyoureyes, being gay is something that you yourself could choose to do. You could go into a relationship with a member of the same sex. It would not disgust you or horrify you. In fact it would appeal to you. Well good on you, but for me it would just not be possible. I don't have a gay bone in my body. The entire thought disgusts me, so therefore I could never choose to be gay. But ok, you could. That's fine. I'm not gonna argue about that.

I never claimed that sexual orientation is a choice. I have claimed that sexual orientation is not immutable but that change does not involve choice nor therapy. The scientific articles and perspectives that I've referenced show that changes in sexual orientation or sexual fluidity happen through uncontrollable means, some were even biologically caused or related.

[OpenYourEyes]

And what about the eating of unclean animals like shellfish and prawns? This sort of thing is running rampant in modern society and Christians are not saying anything! Why aren't you up in arms about that? Stopping people from committing these horrible attrocities?

I can not devote equal attention to everything. I tend to devote attention or the most attention, to things that are within my field or strengths. Attempting to devote myself equally to every major issue some times takes away from my effectiveness compared to devoting myself to one issue. Others, including non-believers can help out on other things.

Really, I like the whole issue of sexuality, it fascinates me but on this site what I find interesting to debate is the one issue that tend to get a lot of Christians butts kicked, that is, the issue of homosexuality.

[Haven]

I can not devote equal attention to everything. I tend to devote attention or the most attention, to things that are within my field or strengths. Attempting to devote myself equally to every major issue some times takes away from my effectiveness compared to devoting myself to one issue. Others, including non-believers can help out on other things.

Really, I like the whole issue of sexuality, it fascinates me but on this site what I find interesting to debate is the one issue that tend to get a lot of Christians butts kicked, that is, the issue of homosexuality.

Keep in mind that not all Christians here are opposed to homosexuality. Many of our long-time Christian members don't see it as a sin.

With that said, I think the reason why so many people get up in arms about this issue in particular is that it's close to a lot of people's hearts. Attacking gay rights is seen as a personal attack on gay people, and many (rightly, in my opinion) get offended by this. It seems like LGBT people's very right to exist is on the table for debate, and that doesn't sit well with many.

[Bust Nak]

I never claimed that sexual orientation is a choice. I have claimed that sexual orientation is not immutable but that change does not involve choice nor therapy. The scientific articles and perspectives that I've referenced show that changes in sexual orientation or sexual fluidity happen through uncontrollable means, some were even biologically caused or related.

So you accept that sexual orientation is not a choice, and changes does not involve therapy, but through uncontrollable means including biology. That is quite a mouthful. If only there is a catchy phrase to encapsulated all of that... wait, I know one: born gay.

[OpenYourEyes]

Good! Honestly, that anti-LGBT, hateful sect of heterosexual supremacist Christianity needs to go extinct ASAP. It's an absolute scourge to humanity. It's the moral equivalent of white supremacy and the "Christian Identity" and KKK movements that support it, and it directly leads to murders and suicides of LGBT people. It's absolutely putrid.

Disagreeing with or being agaisnt homosexuality does not mean that it's because of hate. Many Christians oppose it on moral grounds.

I hope that you can stop making this claim or at least judge on a case-by-case basis.