The revenge of those killed in Irak!

[YOGHI]

I realized that the number of people killed in Irak is equal with number of votes with whom Bush won in Ohio.

I think this is the revenge of those killed in Irak.

Normal was Kerry to win, but I was thinking about those killed in Irak, who are very active entities now.

Now when a lot of dummies are trying to understand why Bush won, for me is clear how those killed in Irak influenced this election.

[ST88]

I realized that the number of people killed in Irak is equal with number of votes with whom Bush won in Ohio.

I think this is the revenge of those killed in Irak.

Wouldn't the illegally murdered entities push the vote against Bush?

[Corvus]

I realized that the number of people killed in Irak is equal with number of votes with whom Bush won in Ohio.

I think this is the revenge of those killed in Irak.

Wouldn't the illegally murdered entities push the vote against Bush?

Not if they mean to punish the voting public. Pity people don't notice when they are being ruined.

[Piper Plexed]

I am lost, please consider me a simpleton and explain what is being discussed, I don't want to jump to conclusions.

[TQWcS]

Pity people don't notice when they are being ruined.

Explain? Are you saying that Bush is a bad President? What because the economy loses a few jobs?

When jobs are going overseas the only smart thing to do is nothing. Let "the invisible hand" work out the problems of the market. All government intervention is going to do is complicate things in the long run. If you look at the data the job loss actually started under Clintons watch.

The war in Iraq? I believe you think it is all his fault because of you have a hindsight bias. All intelligence was pointing to him having WMD's, after september 11th he did not have time to wait and see what happens. If Saddam would have launched a WMD at a neighboring country you would have said well of course everyone knew he was crazy. Saddam was paying the families of suicide bombers in Isreal and we told the world we would not stand for people supporting terrorists. Furthermore the war in Iraq gave the US a place for our military to fight terrorists. If the troops were not in Iraq the terrorists would bring the war to the US. I guess we should have just let him continue to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

The war on terror? the presidents administration has taken out 70% of the al-quaeda network. Need I say more?

[ST88]

Explain? Are you saying that Bush is a bad President? What because the economy loses a few jobs?

I don't blame Bush for losing jobs. That's no one's fault but the corporations.

The war in Iraq? I believe you think it is all his fault because of you have a hindsight bias. All intelligence was pointing to him having WMD's, after september 11th he did not have time to wait and see what happens...

The intelligence was clearly flawed. But the fault of the Bush administration lies in their thirst for war. They did not bother to analyze the intelligence information, they actually redacted many of the equivocations in the intelligence reports, and they made it clear that any dissenting views would be punished. Cheney still says there was a link between Saddam and Osama bin Laden and so far Karl Rove has refused to admit he was involved in exposing the CIA operative who was married to a critic of the Iraq war.

But this isn't even my biggest gripe with the Iraq war.

Is the world a better place without Saddam? Probably. Would he have attacked the U.S. if he had the means? It's debateable, but I will cede the point. The real failure of the war in Iraq is not the fact of the invasion, but the logistics of the invasion. Rumsfeld did not allocate enough troops, materials, and specialists to the initial efforts in order to make the cost for war appear to be smaller than it should have been. The insurgent war was ignited in the first weeks when the U.S. secured oil fields but not art treasures, civil documents, weapons caches, residential populations, and utilities. Further, they allowed thousands of Iraqis to become and remain unemployed instead of involving them in the reconstruction efforts because the companies that bid on those efforts already had their personnel in place. The Bush administration did not prepare for a situation on the ground that would happen after the initial conflict -- the time after the "Mission Accomplished" banner. They thought that Iraqis would be throwing flowers at the tanks as they paraded through the streets. The Army booted out over half of their Arabic translators because they confessed to being gay. The National Guard was used for military operations. The military was used for civilian operations. Private sector companies were used for guard operations. And the money went... where?

I am scared, scared, that the Bush administration apparently does not understand the purpose of diplomacy, nor how or where to apply it. They don't understand that the world isn't made up of people who are just like Americans and people who hate freedom. Militant Islamists don't hate our freedom. That is the biggest lie he has told. They hate our influence and our foreign policy.

The war on terror? the presidents administration has taken out 70% of the al-quaeda network. Need I say more?

Oh, TQWcS, I hope you were able to vote... The Bush administration can claim to have taken out up to 75% of the original al-Qaida list. However, the war in Iraq has increased the al-Qaida membership rolls by such a great number that this percentage has become meaningless. Many if not most of the slots taken up by those members it has eliminated were filled quickly by members rising in the ranks and being recruited, and recruitment itself has skyrocketed.

[TQWcS]

Rumsfeld did not allocate enough troops, materials, and specialists to the initial efforts in order to make the cost for war appear to be smaller than it should have been.

Congress would have never gone for it. The initial invasion was military genius. The casualties in Iraq are probably the lowest ever for a war this long. Many argue that the Bush administration was not hawkish and just did what they thought they had to do. We have no way to tell which is right. I believe the War in Iraq is a lame excuse to be against Bush esp since Kerry was for it. I suggest you Watch Farienhype 911 good stuff.

[Corvus]

Pity people don't notice when they are being ruined.

Explain? Are you saying that Bush is a bad President? What because the economy loses a few jobs?

When jobs are going overseas the only smart thing to do is nothing. Let "the invisible hand" work out the problems of the market. All government intervention is going to do is complicate things in the long run. If you look at the data the job loss actually started under Clintons watch.

I was considering the 17 percent cut to medicare. Your economy is recovering, but there still exists the biggest deficit in the history of the united states, not to mention the fact the social security trust was reduced $507 billion dollars to help pay for the war effort. I also need not mention the stupidity of abstinence only education when at this moment in time children as young as 13 are having sex in America.

I fear the religious overtones of the administration, which, though I am sure you will not object to, cause me to worry about the frightening times ahead in the form of a long awaited climactic confrontation in the middle east, painted in black and white as a battle of good and evil, freedom and slavery, and which they will do everything to bring it about. I strongly fear another war, which, by listening to Bush's language, he seems to yearn for.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3669">
09.27.2004</a>
Our strategy is clear: We'll defend the homeland, we will transform our
military, we'll strengthen our intelligence services, we will stay on the
offensive. We will defeat the terrorists abroad so we do not have to face them
here at home. (Applause.) We will work to advance liberty and freedom
throughout the world, and we will prevail. (Applause.)

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3867">
10.01.2004</a>
The way to defeat the terrorists is to stay on the offense and to bring them to
justice.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3711">
10.01.2004</a>
We're reforming and strengthening our intelligence services. We're staying on
the offensive. We'll strike the terrorists abroad so we do not have to face
them here at home. (Applause.) We will work to advance liberty in the broader Middle
East and around the world, and we will prevail.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3720">
10.02.2004</a>
We are staying on the offensive. We are striking the terrorists abroad so we do
not have to face them here at home. (Applause.)

We will continue to spread freedom and liberty in the broader Middle East and
around the world, and we will prevail.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3719">
10.02.2004</a>
I have the solemn duty to protect the homeland, and we'll do everything we can
here at home to protect you. But the best way to protect the homeland is to
stay on the offensive, fighting the terrorists overseas so we do not have to
face them here in America. (Applause.)

But I understand this: to make sure our children and grandchildren grow up in a
hopeful, peaceful world, this country must continue to spread freedom and
liberty.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3787">
10.06.2004</a>
To win this war, we must fight on every front. We'll stay on the offensive
against terrorist networks, striking them before they come to America to hurt
us. We'll confront governments that support terrorists and could arm them,
because they're equally guilty of terrorist murder.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3796">
10.06.2004</a>
We have had -- we have had many victories in the war on terror. And that war
goes on. Our nation is safer, but not yet safe. To win this war we must fight
on every front. We will stay on the offensive against terrorist networks. We
will strike them overseas so we do not have to face them here at home. (Applause.)
We will confront governments that support terrorists and could arm them,
because they're equally guilty of terrorist murder.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3801">
10.07.2004</a>
We will stay on the offensive against the terrorist networks -- we will defeat
them overseas, so we do not have to face them here at home. (Applause.)

We will confront governments that support terrorists, and could arm them --
because they're equally guilty of terrorist murder. And our long-term victory
requires confronting the ideology of hate with freedom and hope, changing the
conditions that produce radicalism and suicide bombers, and finding new
democratic allies in a troubled region of the world.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3878">
10.11.2004</a>
We're staying on the offensive. We are striking the terrorists abroad, so we do
not have to face them here at home.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3892">
10.12.2004</a>
We're staying on the offensive. We will strike the terrorists abroad, so we do
not have to face them here at home. (Applause.) We will continue to work to
spread liberty and peace, and we will prevail. (Applause.)

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3923">
10.14.2004</a>
We'll make sure that America is safe and secure by staying on the offensive.
We'll defeat the terrorists overseas so we do not face them here at home.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=2064">
10.15.2004</a>
We've taken unprecedented steps to protect this homeland. We have a solemn duty
to do so. Yet wars are won on the offensive and America and our friends will
stay on the offensive.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=3968">
10.18.2004</a>
Will we stay on the offensive against those who want to attack us --

AUDIENCE: Yes!

THE PRESIDENT: -- or will we take action only after we are attacked?

AUDIENCE: No!

<SNIP>The best way to prevent attacks is to stay on the offense against the
enemy overseas.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=4059">
10.23.2004</a>
We're on the offensive; we will stay on the offensive. And we're succeeding.

<a href="http://www.georgewbush.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=4088">
10.25.2004</a>
First, I believe that America wins wars by fighting on the offensive. (Applause.)
When I saw those images of the fire and death on September the 11th, I made a
decision: Our country will not sit back and wait for future attacks. We will
prevent those attacks by going after the enemy.

The war in Iraq? I believe you think it is all his fault because of you have a hindsight bias. All intelligence was pointing to him having WMD's, after september 11th he did not have time to wait and see what happens. If Saddam would have launched a WMD at a neighboring country you would have said well of course everyone knew he was crazy.

Oh, I do believe the war in Iraq was wrong, but it's not currently ruining Americans. They hardly care about it, and nor do they have a reason to other than in moral dialogues. Except the soldiers, but their losses have been slim, and their are still plenty more of them to do the noble task of shooting things and trying not to get shot.

I think in the future the financial concerns will catch up and start ruining them, but not much ruination at the moment.

Saddam was paying the families of suicide bombers in Isreal and we told the world we would not stand for people supporting terrorists.

Fantastic, except the actual terrorist - either a frightened child or a crazed zealot - never saw the money. The grieving family did. It seems to me more compensation than incentive or support. It certainly isn't a reason they blow themselves up.

Furthermore the war in Iraq gave the US a place for our military to fight terrorists. If the troops were not in Iraq the terrorists would bring the war to the US.

Lucky that. And this is exactly what I mean by Americans could not care what happens in Iraq. This suggests to me that, because we aren't the ones suffering for it, everything is grand. Even so, as ST88 pointed out, Iraq has served as a fantastic recruiting ground for Al Qaeda, which, before 9-11, I had barely heard of, and now seems to be almost everywhere, hiding in the shadows. I don't believe this has always been the case and that they have been biding their time until now. It seems to me their ranks have swelled, along with their fury, as a direct result of this war.

I guess we should have just let him continue to kill hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

Since the war started, 14,219 - 16,352 civillians (deciding whether they were innocent is not for me to judge) have died. Roughly 1000 US soldiers have died. I am guessing (since a search for the figures is not turning anything up) that around 100,000 enemy combatants have died. We may not be able to equal Saddam's 20(?) year record, but we are getting there.

The war on terror? the presidents administration has taken out 70% of the al-quaeda network. Need I say more?

And yet I feel no safer. Since the war in Iraq, three bombings have been attempted against Australians in Indonesia. October 2002 had 202 people, 88 of them Australian, killed at a popular Australian resort in bali. August 2003 had a car bombing of the Marriott hotel which left 12 dead, and more recently, the gates of the Australian embassy in Indonesia sagged and bowed under the force of a car bomb exploding just outside it.This has never happened to us. I have seen interviews with the Bali bombers and their reasons are clear. We voted for someone who supported the War in Iraq, and for that we must pay. I do not for a second buy the argument that they contradictively hate freedom and are trying to rebel against it.

I am most certainly afraid. I would rather we run away from Iraq with our tail between our legs than put up a pretense of being brave and possibly become dead.

[turtleguy]

i don't get what you are talking about. and i think st88 is right about they would be against Bush but illegal murdered but do you really think a bunch of ghosts from Iraq came and voted for Bush. your just upset because the slimy liberal weiner kerry lost.

[Spongemom]

For the sake of clarity, it's spelled IRAQ, not IRAK.